Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:32:06 -0500
Reply-To: John Rodgers <jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: lifter problems
In-Reply-To: <005c01c43918$46aae620$d9032a45@ttowerdef17>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I suspect that all the openings for all the oil leaks were already
there, but the difference in the size of the molecules between Dino oil
and Synthetics is what lets the Synthetic leak versus the non-leakage of
the Dino oil. Sort of like why helium filled balloons deflate overnight
and nitrogen filled ones do not. Helium molecules are very small
compared to the nitrogen ones, and the helium can go throught th pores
in the rubber where nitrogen cannot. That smallness may also contribute
to why synthetics can do a superior job of lubricating in adverse
conditions. Though I am sure that is not the only reason. I know Dino
oil cokes pretty badly in a really hot environment, and synthetics do
not until temps are much higher.
But I agree with you, if the higher qualities of the synthetics are not
needed, then why go to the trouble and expense??? Well, in my case, I
found that it helped the Mann oil filter to eliminate the famous Vanagon
Lifter Clatter syndrome on my WBX. I also found that my oil consumption
was reduced by using the Mobile One. So, I feel the enhancements are
worth the added cost.
Personal choice based on my experience.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Doug in Calif wrote:
>John,
>good tips on the Mann filters. I had heard they have a difference internally.
>I have had problems too with lifters acting up when sitting for long periods.
>Usually an easy run will get them to pump up and they are ok for months.
>
>An oil change has helped.
>I like the "Engine Restore" product.
>
>I do not like Mobile One.
>I believe it is overkill on the vanagon and many Porsche folks who have switched to it
>have found it created a multitude of engine oil leaks.
>In a turbo engine where the turbo bearings run at very high temps Mobile One does help.
>Vanagon motors do not have abnormally high engine oil temps and with the oil cooler on the 2.1s it should not be an issue.
>IMHO its a waste of money for the vanagon, you are better off running 20-50 and change the oil more frequently.
>
>I run standard 20-50 in my Porsches and have had no problems at all.
>
>Doug
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Rodgers
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re: lifter problems
>
>
> Paul,
>
> Replace your oil filter with a Mann or Mahle filter. These two filters
> have internal relief valve springs that have sufficient strength to hold
> the oil pressue in the oil galleries of the engine when the engine is
> turned off. Other brands do not. With the other filters, the pressure
> bleeds down in the galleries, allowing the [pressure to drop in the
> lifters, and then when you start up the valves clatter until the lifters
> pump up. It is said that this really doesn't hurt anything if the
> lifters pump up soon, but in rerality it does hurt the engine. Not in a
> large way, but over time the accumulated effects of the odd wear caused
> by this condition will contribute to engine problems. A lifter that is
> flat results in a valve that opens late and closes early. Thuswith an
> intake valve, you have a reduced charge in the cylinder, and therefore
> reduced power. On a four cylinder engine this is an out of balance
> condition that puts uneven loads on rotating parts. Not Good!! If it is
> an exhaust valve then you have a cylinder holding pressue far longer
> than it should, and reduced scavenging of exhaust gases with resulting
> back pressure, thus increasing vibration, increasing temperatures, and
> putting added loads on rotating parts. Again, NOT GOOD!!
>
> So, get the filters that have over and over proven to work.
>
> Since your machine is aircooled, I'm not sure about the best oil type
> but consider my comments on the WBX. It may apply to the aircooled
> engines. Don't know for certain.
>
> Add a bottle of Marvels Mystery oil to the engine oil, run around a
> bit......100 miles on a steady run........... then drain the oil,
> replace the filter, and put in Mobil One 15W50WT Synthetic. If you
> still have the clattering on startup after all that, then you have
> problems in the valve train and the cold valve clearance with the
> lifters flat may have to be adjusted. If that doesn't do it, then the
> lifters themselvesare the problrm and you may have to replace them. But
> that is not likely if the engine is new. I suggest you switch to Mobil
> One anyway, just as a matter of course. Bob Donalds web site,
> www.bostonengines.com has some good info about adjusting valves. Bob
> knows his stuff with these engines and is a good source of info.
>
> My own set up on my 88 GL is as follows
>
> *Engine:* the Mann filter, Mobil One 15W50wt Synthetic ( piston type
> aircraft engines went to synthetic oils a long time ago... why not the
> WBX?)
> *Fuel System: *One bottle of Marvels Mystery oil every third tank full.
> *Coolant:* Texaco Havoline Orange Biodegreadable, and one bottle of
> Redline WaterWetter - Drain and flush sustem every two years, religiously.
> *Manual Tranny:* Redline MT90 tranny oil. Change every two years
> religiously. The molecular chains in oil break over time, and
> lubrication quality diminishes, so this makes sense to me as a
> maintenance item.
> *Brakes: *Bleed and flush with new break fluid every two years - I do
> this because of the water and dirt I have found in the lines at
> different times. Flushing as routine maintenance just makes sense to me.
>
> I have over 50,000 miles on a rebuilt engine and not a burp, nor drop of
> oil has leaked. It runs nice and cool, and all systems perform as they
> should. (Except the AC which needs work)
>
> I'm an old aircraft mechanic whose experiece has taught me that a high
> level of service and maintenance ALWAYS leads to better performance and
> longevity. You don't pull a broken airplane over and park it on a cloud
> while you wait for the tow truck!!! And I absolutely HATE haveing to
> call a tow truck for my van.!!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Whitley wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I am pretty new to the Vanagon scene. I have owned nothing but a BMW
> > 320I and multiple Beetles. So I thought buying a 1982 Vanagon
> > (air-cooled) would be no different than what I have been use to. Boy
> > was I wrong.
> >
> > I usually do as much of my own maintenance as possible. I can pretty
> > much rebuild a 1600cc drunk and blindfolded, but this 2.0 is giving me
> > some annoying problems that I need help with.
> >
> > The hydraulic lifters seem to collapse every 10 or 11 months. This
> > last time when I replaced them and set the timing the problem did not
> > go away. There is definite blow back of the exhaust gasses and no
> > power. I think the van can go about 25 mph.
> >
> > This van has been in my family for 2 years now. I want to keep it, but
> > not if this happens every year. Is this an engineering flaw, or am I
> > doing something to contribute to the delinquency of a cranky van?
> >
> > Any ideas would be helpful.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Paul Whitley
> > 82 Vanagon GL "Rolling Turd"
> > 74 Super Beetle "Tori #7"
> > 63 Beetle Project "Money Pit" or "Garage Therapy"
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life
> > Events. <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2749??PS=47575>
>
>
>
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