Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:58:56 -0700
Reply-To: Doug in Calif <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Doug in Calif <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
Subject: Re: How my engine rebuild is going
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Dennis,
Some good points in your reply.
I have no way to know for sure but I believe the gaskets went south to overheating at some point.
After I picked up the van in San Diego I consistently watched the temp gauge while driving up I-5 and it never
got above the red light in the middle of the gauge.
It may have been overheated previously and even retorqued by somebody to sell it.
I picked it up from a guy who bought it from an auction (Yeikes I know)
I did a full car fax on the vin and its in nice condition overall and I really wanted this model and color. ac works etc.
Paid $5200 for her. took a gamble.
IMHO its pretty difficult to damage the tops of the cast iron cylinders with carbon.
I honed the insides and cleaned the tops with a good scotch brite and they are fine.
The head chambers have been bead blasted and show no erosion so they are fine.
I personally have not ever experienced this whole "hardware stretching" concept.
But what you are saying makes sense about them losing torque from over heat, obviously something stretched.
I am willing to just clean it all up and put it back together and see how she goes.
I hear the yellow sealant from VW will allow you to retorque the heads and i would definitely like to do that at various intervals to give it the best shot at staying together.
That would also let me know if they are pulling out of the case or not holding torque for any reason. I may be wrong but I think it will be fine.
A guy near me recently sold his fine running 2.1 out of his 86 because he is doing the suby conversion it sold for less than 600 bucks complete with fuel injection ECU.
I know they can go for unheard of prices but they can also be found pretty cheap if you look around out here.
I have another engine to rebuild right after this one I am parting out of my 87 sunroof. I have no history on it but It too has blown head gaskets, and want to pull that engine down and go through it as well.
Since both my 87 syncro and 89 wolfy have the same long block my thinking is keep a fresh one on the shelf in the garage and that way I can take a few chances and experiment with what I can keep in service with respect to used parts.
I would like to put a suby in the syncro because its terribly under powered, so the little waterboxers only need to go a couple years.
Thanks again,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Haynes
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: How my engine rebuild is going
The major thing you are neglecting here is why the gasket failed to
begin with. The gasket did not fail due to normal wear or a defect of
its own. Also when the gasket did fail, either the head, cylinder, or
both is damaged. These surfaces need to be inspected and measure very
carefully. Assuming the engine was together for some time without any
problems, the most likely cause of this failure was overheating. At the
time of the over heating, the head studs may have over stretched, and
when things cooled they lost there preload and thus the ability to keep
the heads pulled tight. Since you had a catastrophic failure, both the
studs and the nuts should be replaced. These studs are unique in their
application as they really work like very high pressure springs keeping
the heads clamped tightly to the cylinders while everything expands and
contracts at different rates. Like a spring, if they over stretch, they
will not return to the proper length when the tension is removed. Fail
to address this, and you will get to do the job again. If the cylinders
have carbon on top where the gasket seats, it should be replaced.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of Doug in Calif
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 1:26 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: How my engine rebuild is going
Well,
This is my 2nd waterboxer I am rebuilding and I have to say the 1.9s are
a little more basic and more familiar to the air cooled engine folks.
I pulled my 2.1 out of my 89 bluestar because it had a catastrophic
metal headgasket failure and left me stranded 300 miles from home.
After flying down to San Diego to purchase it last August, it only made
it to the grapevine hill outside of LA before it gave out.
Its been parked in my backyard ever since. I would occasionally go out
and sit in it on nice mornings and have a cup on the very slick flip out
table, listen to the radio and pretend it was a running vehicle.
Well, now I have the engine out and torn down all the way. I had the
rods checked and they are fine, I polished the crank and have installed
new main, cam, and rod bearings. I made the mistake of putting the #3
bearing on the crank backwards, as the oil holes are only on the left
side of the case and the outer locking tabs have to be on the bottom.
(oops). Had to pull the gears back off and turn it around. The other
mistake I made is I did not carefully remove the lifters and sort them
so I could place them back into their respective bores. How important is
this? none show any wear really. Should I purchase new ones? Anybody do
what I did and have their cam go flat in short order?
Other than that, I decarbonized the pistons, broke the glaze on the
cylinders and have cleaned up everything.
I am having all 4 exhaust seats replaced in the practically new AMC
heads. The seats have receded really far into the head for some reason.
There is a shop here locally that can do all 4 seats for about 60
bucks. I have another guy who is going to do the valve job and seat the
keepers properly as AMC does not do this. I had to purchase new exhaust
valves because the keeper grooves were practically worn away from
improperly installing the keepers. There seems to be a problem with
keeper fits these days on new heads, the valve stem keepers bottom out
against each other before making full engagement on the valve stem
grooves, so there is slop between the keeper and valve and it wears.
You need to check this if you buy new head as well as the valve grind
which will typically not be 3 angle grind but a flat 45 degree on the
seat which is incorrect.
I am going to use copper coat on the metal head gaskets and put it all
back together. Anybody know of a larger oil pump for the vanagon? We
used some pretty big ones on the bugs in the old days I think the 2.1
could use more oil circulation.
The end play shims were incorrect on this motor when I tore it down, it
is supposed to use the newer style thrust washer and the late shims, it
had the late thrust washer but 1.9 shims in it. So I am going to have to
find the late stuff to set it up correctly.
Other than that it looks like a runner, it may have been a GEX motor
from LA as it had some buttons JB welded to the heads and case and had
writing all over the back. The case also was painted silver, arghhh!,
fortunately I was able to get most of the paint removed. If the heads
had run the way they were set up much longer I think one of the exhaust
valves would have worn all the way through the keeper and I would have
sucked an exhaust valve into the engine.
Looking forward to getting the blue star back on the road again. This
will be my first vanagon with AC and our summers gut up into the 100s
so it will get a good test.
Doug
