Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 13:07:39 -0600
Reply-To: Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: [Diesel-Vanagon] RE: Finding TDC on I-4 Conversion,
1.9TD @ 15 degrees
In-Reply-To: <ONEMLLKKCOGAAFPIEALIAEBGCGAA.fitzr@suscom-maine.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hmmm...well, how many miles on this rig? That would be my question. And why
the assumption the spray was retarded and getting more so? I think by the
time the spray was too retarded to ignite the engine would have already
stopped unmercifully from destructive interference.
If I assume you are wrong and the real problem is a dying pump, it's a
simple matter of resurrecting the pump by whatever means imaginable,
including a rebuild.
If you are right, you can remove the camshaft cover and check alignment of
the cam. On the rear (hard to see end) there's a wide slot on the camshaft
end. When it is parallel to the rim it is in firing position. Sure it can be
inexact by a few degrees, everyone has their preferences.
When your piston is straight up and the cam is aligned the sprocket should
be a few degrees ahead of the mark on the pump flange. If you DO have
slippage it most likely is from the sprocket on the camshaft since it has no
slotted key. It's just a conical compression fitting and can theoretically
slip, although I've never heard of it happening.
-- Gnarlie
http://Gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Notes.html#TimingBelt
Entity Doug Fitz-Randolph spoke thus:
> Talk about procrastinating... ONE YEAR LATER I'm finally getting to this!
>
> Found the access hole no prob - was looking in the wrong place.
>
> Symptom: Last spring, my injection timing started to retard. At first I
> could get the engine to run by leaving the cold start knob pulled out all
> the time, but eventually that stopped working and the engine would not run
> at all. This very gradually, getting progressively worse in a linear fashion
> over the course of about 50 miles.
>
> Suspicion: Several people suggested the cam sprocket had sheared off the key
> and begun to rotate on the shaft. Today I'm checking to see if this is the
> case.
>
> Checking: With the timing belt in place, I locked the camshaft using the
> locking plate, and the injection pump sprocket with the locking pin. When I
> look at the KEP flywheel through the access hole, I can see the TDC mark.
> Here's where I'm a little unsure, though. With no tension on the belt, the
> mark is at the very bottom of the access hole, just coming into view. If I
> apply a little tension to the belt by using a socket wrench on the camshaft,
> I can get the mark to be square in the middle of the hole. If I let off the
> tension the TDC mark stays put. If I apply a little more tension, I can get
> the 3 degree mark to appear. Letting off the tension it returns just about
> to having the TDC mark square in the middle.
>
> Question: Being a degree or two off would seem like it's a big deal to me,
> so this has to be pretty precise, right? My question is - how precise?
> Should the mark be aligned with tension on the belt? How much? Also, this
> seems like it's nearly right on... like if the cam sprocket had slipped it
> would have been further off than this very small amount of +- tolerance
> depending on belt tension.
>
> Your input/advise is greatly appreciated!!
>
> Doug Fitz-Randolph
> Freeport, ME
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Marshall [mailto:vanagon@volkswagen.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:52 PM
> To: Doug Fitz-Randolph; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: RE: Finding TDC on I-4 Conversion, 1.9TD @ 15 degrees
>
>
> Doug and the list.
>
> I was away for a few days so I am sorry for the not so speedy reply on the
> question.
>
> All KEP I4 adapter plates have a small 1/2"(ish) hole on the exhaust side of
> the motor - this hole has a neat shiny cover to it that can be pried out
> with a small knife or a screw driver.
>
> The I4 flywheels can only go on one way - I have never seen the timing marks
> off using KEP stuff (the original VW stuff yes!).
>
> The *absolute* best way to verify that you are indeed at TDC is to remove
> the injector and put the eraser end of a pencil down there or softlike that
> and verify by feel that the TDC mark really is TDC. As I have said, the KEP
> stuff that I have worked with has always been 100%
>
> David Marshall
>
> Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
> 4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
> Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
>
> http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
> Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
>
> - Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
> - Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation
> - European Lighting for most Volkswagen models
>
>
> Due to the large volume of email we receive, PLEASE include previous
> emails when responding. This will allow us to read the complete dialogue
> in one message and will result in quicker and more accurate responses.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
> Of Doug Fitz-Randolph
> Sent: June 11, 2003 9:07 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Finding TDC on I-4 Conversion, 1.9TD @ 15 degrees
>
>
> Huh. I wasn't able to find any hole, but maybe I missed it. I didn't install
> this myself. The flywheel is the one that come w/ the Fast Forward kit I'm
> assuming - don't know 100% for sure. If in fact the hole does exist and I
> can find the marks on the flywheel... is there a possibility that it still
> might not be TDC, i.e. the flywheel was not correctly oriented when
> installed? I'm unfortunately not too familiar with that end of the engine.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark drillock [mailto:drillock@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:58 AM
> To: Doug Fitz-Randolph
> Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Finding TDC on I-4 Conversion, 1.9TD @ 15 degrees
>
>
> Good question. What flywheel are you using?
>
> The KEP flywheel has marks and the 15 degree adapter a hole that I
> assume lines up with the marks when the engine is a TDC. I have not
> installed the parts to verify this. The mark is on the back face of the
> FW. I specified a 15 degree diesel kit when I ordered from KEP.
>
> Mark
>
> Doug Fitz-Randolph wrote:
>>
>> I'm stumped. How do I get TDC? No access hole I can find, and not the
>> original flywheel anyhow I think. Do I need to remove the head to find it,
>> and then perhaps make my own access port and some sort of reference mark
> for
>> future use? Just beginning to set injection pump timing and can't get
>> anywhere without TDC.
>> Thanks!
>> Doug Fitz-Randolph
>> Freeport, ME
>
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