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Date:         Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:42:50 -0400
Reply-To:     John Scheckel <jscheckel@NUTLEY.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Scheckel <jscheckel@NUTLEY.COM>
Subject:      Re: The red or the blue
Comments: To: "Brian T." <nobleman36@YAHOO.COM>

Brian; Here's the diatribe that I wrote to the list a last year about my experience with H&R springs and Bilstien shocks.

Good luck; John

Hi all; This is a long post for all those who want to know about H&R springs in a 2 wheel drive vanagon carat. For those of you reading the archives this was written in January 2003.

Since there has been a lot of discussion in the past and presumably the future, I thought that I would pass along my experience with the installation of these springs in my van. I own a 1989 2 wheel drive carat, wolfsburg edition vanagon. I have 15 inch wheels with Toyo HR4 tires, Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks and H&R spings. The only other modifications that were made include sound proofing and thermal insulation, which added an estimated 75 pounds to the van.

Before I go any further, Toyo tires are NOT the tires to run on the van, the sidewalls are too soft and there is a significant loss of crosswind stability with these tires as compared to a light truck tire.

The project began with the installation of Bilstein heavy duty shock absorbers in conjunction with the stock springs in an effort to assist in the overall handling and especially the lateral stability (in crosswinds) of the van. The results were less noticable than I expected. The shocks are somewhat stiffer than the KYB's that were installed in my previous van (same version, but 1987 vintage) but did not significantly increase the lateral stability.

The next step was the installation of the H&R springs and a full wheel alignment. The Bilstein shocks remained installed, with stock tuning. The result of this installation was a significant increase in lateral stability, enhanced cornering stability, a lower overall ride height. On smooth pavement the ride was outstanding, smooth and taught. BUT over bumps the shock damping was uncontrolled. The Bilstein shocks in their stock tuning are designed to work with the stock springs and not with the H&R's which are 25% to 30 % stiffer than stock, according to H&R. The ride was very stiff on the shock compression and very loose on rebound. The ride was extremely bouncy and uncomfortable. The poor ride was experienced going over pavement joints, slight dips in the road or over potholes. The ride could be held somewhat undercontrol with only the driver in the van. With a front passenger and/or other passengers the van rebounded uncontrollably and would continue through two cycles before comming to rest. An unacceptable ride.

A phone call was placed to both H&R and Bilstien in an effort to find a solution to the lack of proper shock absorption. The solution was to send the shocks to Bilstein to be rebuilt with valving appropriate for the springs. Bilstein charges $55 per shock to revalve. Bilstein apparently has two possible tuning configurations for the Vanagon, the first is for the Syncro and the second is for the 2 wheel drive. The shocks were sent to Bilstein twice. During the first revalve they were returned with the Syncro valving. That result was similar to the original tuning, but a better overall and more controlled ride BUT it still was not correct for the spring rate. After another phone conversation with the service department at Bilstein the shocks were sent a second time for revalving. This time they were returned with a much softer compression stroke and a firm rebound. The result is a ride that is controlled, stiff, almost harsh but not at all bouncy, and is consistent with one person or 5 people and luggage in the van. With this shock tuning the lateral stability during cornering is somewhat reduced as compared with the original installation. The current arrangement provides and acceptable controlled ride.

Conclusion: If I were to do this project again I would do a lot more research into other spring and shock options. A spring that is not a varibale rate (as the H&R is) would probably be more approprite to using the van for load carrying ability and comfort. I would also look for a shock that is adjustable such as Koni. I don't know if Koni makes shocks for the Vanagon.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian T." <nobleman36@YAHOO.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: The red or the blue

> What is the mass opinion Koni -vs- Bilstein? > > I am now running H&R springs and my KYB GR2 front > shocks aren't dealing well with rebound. I know the > Koni is a hydraulic shock and the Bils are gas & > that's about all I know. > > What say you O' oracles of all Vanagon knowledge! > > BTW, the H&R's are great... no more clearance issue > getting into my garage and I like the stiff ride, it > isn't as bad as I had expected at all ;-) > > Brian >


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