Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:43:11 -0600
Reply-To:     jbrush@AROS.NET
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Anonymous Digest <jbrush@AROS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Non-Family Hauler / rear lap belts are much more safe than no
              belt
In-Reply-To:  <200406151555.i5FFtDDP011118@phobos.aros.net>

>Sam, maybe I didn't make it clear .... my girl was thrown completely out of the
>car. She was wearing the three point restraint  as a lap belt, instead of
>wearing it correctly.. The other girl was strapped into the vehicle by her
>three-point restraint, which kept her securely  in her seat throughout the
>rollover.

I usually just lurk, having no problems with my van, but I can't watch this
thread and not point out the inconsistencies in all this logic.

I am very sorry for your loss, but if you wear a three point belt and remove the
shoulder strap as you say she did, you are not wearing any restraint device at
all. The harness relies on the weight and the catch to be activated by the
motion, and position of the shoulder strap in order to restrain the passenger. A
three point harness worn in this manner does not "default" back into a two point
lap belt. It becomes totally useless. Therefore, it is way, way wrong to condemn
a lap belt because this sad circumstance occured. If she had been wearing a REAL
two point lap belt, the outcome might well have  been different but she was not
wearing any restraint device at all. I don't need to point out that a lap belt
is pulled tight and stays that way, but the shoulder harness in NOT tight until
impact or sudden motion occurs.

The condition of the passenger says nothing at all about the usefulness of two
point lap belts, but only shows that a three point worn correctly can save your
life, but worn incorrectly, it won't work at all. Just want to make that point
real clear, that anyone who slides that shoulder belt off, might as well remove
the belt altogether, as you are just fooling yourself.

Its just that the statement that she was wearing the three point strap as a lap
belt is wrong. Once she failed to wear the belt correctly, she was wearing no
restraining device at all. Try it and/or consider the design and how it is
designed to work, and you can easily see that the shoulder belt worn without the
shoulder strap restrains nothing, and is just a piece of material set across the
waist. It will NOT hold you in place at all.

John