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Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:57:20 -0800
Reply-To:     Mark Tuovinen <mst@AK.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mark Tuovinen <mst@AK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Non-Family Hauler
Comments: To: Jack <john.cook58@VERIZON.NET>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I don't recall arguing for not using lapbelts. I merely pointed out that they CAN cause significant damage. I agree that they are better then no belt, though children and small adults need to use them with extra caution. I am pro-belt use to the point of having sold a previous vehicle do to the lack of rear-seat shoulder belts, and have acquired a shoulder belt to add for the rear seat of our 87 Westy.

The first line of defense is an alert, defensive driver, avoiding the crash beats getting into one in the first place. Seatbelts come second.

Mark in AK

----- Original Message ----- From: Jack <john.cook58@VERIZON.NET> Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:08 pm Subject: Re: Non-Family Hauler

> It seems the argument that no belt is safer than a simple lap belt

> ignoresthe historical data gained during the transition from no- > belts to lap belts, > at least in the U.S. (late 1950's through 1960's) The overall

> decrease in > fatalities due to use of belts was significant, despite the

> occasional,"thrown-clear" exception and injuries from the belts

> themselves. It > surprises me that the religious wars which sprang up then are

> continuing.

> //Jack >

> Date sent: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:01:19 +0200 > Send reply to: Calle Fallberg <calle.fallberg@TELIA.COM> > From: Calle Fallberg <calle.fallberg@TELIA.COM> > Subject: Re: Non-Family Hauler > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >

> > Mark wrote..... > > > > > The lap belt creates a natural hinge point for the body to

> >fold around, > > coupled with the force applied to the body >in an accident, you

> can easily > > suffer internal injuries or >even a broken pelvis. > > > > Terrible injuries, but still this is better than being

> unstrapped and thrown > > out through the windscreen in a head on ...... And since the

> major part of > > collisions take place in the cities at fairly low speed the lap

> belt compared > > to no-belt is so much better ! > > > > You should also consider the weight of the unbelted rear

> passenger flying > > into the back of the frontseat! Will the frontseat back take

> this or will it > > break and what will then happen to the frontseat passenger ?

> Could the front > > seatbelt take all that force ? Where will the body go IF the

> frontseat don't > > break ? > > > > I for one would rather strap backseat passengers down with a

> little risk of > > them getting pelvis injuries in case of an accident than see

> them smashed > > over the car I crashed into ! Itīs better being hurt and alive

> than dead, I > > know since I broke my neck in a whiplash 1974 but survived with

> a 25% reduced > > moveability in my right arm and the capability to predict bad

> weather by a > > bit stiffer neck :) To take this discussion a step further I had

> a threepoint > > belt - but no headrest wich is often the case in the rearseats

> of Vanagons in > > general and Westys in particular! > > > > Calle > > -88 Vanagon > > Mullhyttan, Sweden >


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