Date:         Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:18:03 -0700
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Blown engine: Yet another update (long)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Based only on my personal experience with older engines, I would be
surprised if the oil had gotten that dirty in only two miles, but if it was
in fact in there when the engine went, that might explain it.

It occurs to me that it might be worth a try to have the oil you removed
from your engine analyzed, as discussed in a recent thread, to see what a
lab could tell you about it . If it is in fact the oil that was in it when
it blew, is should bear some chemical signs of what happened to it during
the short time it was in there. In fact, if you wanted to go to the expense,
it would be interesting to have the oil tested at two labs; you could
include the details of the incident with one sample and send the other blind
to see how close the conclusions were. At any rate, you should be able to
find out for sure if it was virgin oil (i.e. they forgot to fill it, as some
have suspected) and put in afterwards, or if it was indeed in there at the
time. Someone who has had personal experience with oil testing would be
better able to comment on this, however (anyone?).

I suppose, if they were thinking quick and were in a creative mood, they
could have filled it after the fact with your old oil (or somebody else's)
but that's getting a little Roswell about it. : )

I may be reading more into your post than is warranted, but you seem to feel
reluctant to 'go after' these guys. If they're responsible, they should take
care of it, period; and of course, if they're not, then they're not. It's
not a personal thing.

Good luck,
Robert


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Perdue" <marcperdue@ADELPHIA.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: Blown engine: Yet another update (long)


> For those of you who have been following my misadventure, I went by the
> dealer's shop today and took some pictures.  I don't have a web page to
post
> them on, but I can describe what I found.  The piston connecting rod that
> was sticking out of the top of the engine had no signs of ever having had
a
> place to put connecting rod bolts.  That's how tore up it was.  The hole
in
> the top of the engine was about 4 by 6 inches big.  I pulled the dipstick
> and it showed that the engine was about two-thirds full of fairly clean
> oil.  Suspecting that the dealer might have filled it up after the fact, I
> drained the oil into one of those fairly flat containers that has a big
> pan-type funnel on it that was yellow.  The oil was fairly dark, not as
> clean as I would have expected had it been just put in and never run in
the
> engine.  It was, of course, full of small metal bits and pieces.  I pulled
> the oil filter and took a hacksaw and cut it in half.  It was full of dark
> oil, though the filter material was fairly clean.
>
> Backing up a bit, I just showed up at the dealership with no appointment
and
> asked for the key to my van and to speak to the service manager.  He met
me
> around back where the van was with the technician that had worked on the
van
> and I proceeded to take out a bunch of stuff I had in there from camping
the
> previous weekend.  The technician allowed as to how he'd never seen one of
> these engines do that before, but he was younger than me and they don't
get
> that many Vanagons in there.  I had one of my colleagues with me, not for
> intimidation (he's about 450 pounds), but because he's jovial, observant,
> and a good listener.  He and the service manager talked and watched me
take
> stuff out.  Then I got out the cameras, one digital, one analog, in case
> digital pix weren't acceptable should anything go to court.  I took the
> first couple of pictures, then the service manager reached over and
grabbed
> the biggest piece of loose metal and pulled it out and said that I should
> get a picture of that too.  He offered one or two other suggestions as I
> proceeded to document the mileage, the fact that the oil pressure warning
> light actually worked, drained the oil, and pulled the filter.  When he
saw
> that I was having trouble cutting the filter, he put his foot on one end
of
> it to steady it for me.
>
> All in all, the service manager was very friendly, cooperative, helpful,
> professional, and seemed genuinely concerned with my predicament, but in
the
> manner of someone who felt my pain but couldn't do anything to assuage it,
> not like somebody who has done something wrong and is on the defense.
This
> was new for me.  Under the old ownership, which changed about a year ago,
I
> had grown quite accustomed to upset customers being argued with, constant
> technician shortages, and a multitude of excuses for why things wouldn't
> work right.  The new ownership had also completely re-done the waiting
area,
> service counter, parts counter and the way that they take your vehicle.
Now
> you pull up to the service bay door, and check in at the front desk.  The
> parking lot was not overflowing with vehicles waiting to be serviced (a
> first), and there was no line of people waiting to be checked in (another
> first).  The check-in clerk said they were trying something new to see if
> they could keep people from having to wait.  It was apparently working.
>
> Back to the meat of the matter, I also sent some of the digital pictures
up
> to Bob Donalds to get his opinion on the matter.  He basically said that
the
> amount of damage suffered by the engine wouldn't likely have happened in
the
> two miles that I drove the van after leaving the dealership.  We talked
> about quite a few other things, who rebuilt the engine before, how I had
> maintained the vehicle and such, but everything tended to lead me to the
> conclusion that I'm going to be buying my own engine.
>
> Sigh . . .
> Marc Perdue