Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:07:34 -0400
Reply-To: Sam Walters <sam.cooks@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Sam Walters <sam.cooks@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Pop top canvas replecement
In-Reply-To: <002001c4581d$2d1ba9a0$bddaaec7@computer>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Chuck,
Try the archives as this has been discussed many times before. Believe
the consensus is that the screws are much easier to deal with,
especially to remove. It is usually done as a 2 person job and
reportedly takes most of a day.
Attached are four files I have saved from posts to the list that have
"how-to" hints and tips. (Will forward to others who are interested
since Gerry strips attachments.)
Sam
--
Sam Walters
Baltimore, MD
89 Syncro GL
85 Westy Weekender
84 Vanagon, original owner, soon to be retired, just too many problems
All incoming and outgoing email scanned by
automatically updated copy of Norton AntiVirus.
From: Malcolm Stebbins <Malcolm.Stebbins@MSVU.CA>
Subject: Installed: new 3 window canvas (Looong)
Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII
I checked the archives for "new canvas installation" and I found only a cryptic message from Ron (BusDepot) so I thought I'd share my experience. The short story is: "excellent quality canvas + my excellent work = great looking new canvas". Here's the installation/experience story:
As you may recall the PPO of my van had an engine box fire and the canvas was ruined. The PO had a canvas shop sew up a "new canvas" but he saw no reason to put any windows in it. I am now about to ship the van to Cairo (I picked up a job there) and I wanted more air up top, so I bought a new - grey- 3 window canvas from Ron at the BusDepot.
Re Ron's canvas IMHO it is ery good quality (one or 2 un-even stitches) Very good fit, very poor installation instructions. Ron should insist on better instructions for $185!!
OK. This installation report is for my Canadian 1991 Syncro Westy. My van has screwed-in rails holding the canvas to the pop-top and not the million staples mentioned in Bentley and Ron's instructions. So the instructions were nearly worthless for me, but my installation was simpler in many regards.
I'd suggest that you begin on a day when you are feeling good about yourself and the world, as you will need all of the patience that you can muster. I am a university professor (finance) and it took me about 8 to 10 hours (over 2 days) but I was not in any hurry, in fact I loved lavishing the attention on my van.
First I popped the top and, with an electric screw-driver, I un-screwed all of the screws holding the rail holding the BOTTOM of the canvas to the van. This was EASY. I labelled the rails as to front & back; right-front & left-front.
I then began un-screwing the rails that held the canvas to the pop-top. I used a step ladder for the sides and stood in the luggage rack, I also laid down on the top bed and was able to reach around outside to easily unscrew the rails. This step is also Easy!! I'm really good at taking things APART!!! Care should be taken to NOT let the weight of the canvas bend the rails.
One might be able to wiggle the old canvas up and over the top, but I didn't. I took the pop-top off the van as I thought that putting the new canvas on would be easier with the pop-top off the van and on the ground. In retrospect, I think I did the right thing.
To remove the pop-top: At the front of the pop-top I un-screwed the 4 nuts/bolts that hold the "push-up bar" to the pop-top. BE CAREFUL as the "push-up bar" is spring loaded, so prior to finally un-screwing the 4 top nuts/bolts, close the roof and use some heavy wire or zip-straps (I used one of each) to hold the "push-up bar" closed (hog-tied) for when you take the weight off the "push-up bar". This would be like tying your wrist to your armpit to keep your elbow closed.
I then had a choice of un-screwing the rear of the pop-top from the rear hinges (leaving the hinges attached to the van) or un-screwing the rear hinges from the van (leaving the hinges attached to the pop-top). I might have made a mistake here, your choice. I un-screwing the rear of the pop- top from the rear hinges (leaving the hinges attached to the van), and the re- installation was a PITA as there are 4 little plastic washers that impossibly go in behind the hinge plates & the pop-top. Be sure to collect these plastic washes during dis-assembly if you go this route. Also there is some adjustment room where the pop-top fastens to the hinges and in removing the pop-top, I lost this fine adjustment. It might have been easier to re-install the hinges to the van, but one runs the risk of scratching the paint. I needed about 5 minutes of help to lift the pop-top off the van. The van sure looked funny with that star-gazing bed up there.
I then had dinner and slept for 8 hours. Next day, up-and-at-em.
Nice sunny day and I had not much else to do today. After washing the underside of the pop-top (I used Clorox bleach & water) I turned the pop-top up-side-down on the grass, being careful that the skylight did not rest on the ground (might break). As per Ron's directions I measured the middle of the front canvas panel (left to right for the top and bottom) and the middle of the rear canvas panel (left to right for the top and bottom). My pop-top has a screw point dead center across the front and dead-center across back of the pop-top so getting the center of the canvas centred on the pop-top was easy. Check TWICE or you will begin screwing the canvas on up-side-down. Be careful when screwing the canvas back on, as I STRIPPED one of the plastic "nuts" with the electric screw-driver. I did all the remaining screws into the pop-top by hand. I screwed in the center first, then each end. My new canvas had no slack in the ends and it was a bit of a stretch. I did the same for the rear - center and then each edge. I then did the same for the sides, with ZERO slack in the canvas, it lined up perfectly. I lined up the top part of the canvas under the rail so that the black-edged border was totally on the outside of the rail, just touching the side of the rail. I didn't know if this would leave enough room at the bottom but it ended up being just right. I did NOT put in all of the screws at this point as I wanted to check the fit of the canvas top to bottom on the van. So:
I again needed about 5 minutes of help to lift the pop-top back on the van, being VERY careful that the canvas did not catch on anything as I only had it held on with 12 small screws.
It was easy to re-attach the front "push-up bar". I could then remove the straps that were holding the push-up-bar "elbow" together. The rear hinges were much more difficult. Remember that I took the pop-top off the hinges, 4 nuts/bolts on each side with plastic washers between the hinges and the pop- top. Two of the nuts/bolts/washers went on OK, but the other 2 were impossible for me. So, being a university professor, Ithought I'd try some "thinking". I cut up some similar thickness plastic I had in the basement and left a long tongue on the plastic "washer" so that I could hold the plastic washer in place as I slipped the bolt through. I tried to align the adjustment to about where it had been, but I think I got it to tight, so I'll have to re-adjust it soon.
I was really happy to see that the canvas was nearly perfect in its fit to the bottom where it attached to the van. I spot checked the fit with the bottom rails and it was going to fit OK. So I began screwing in the rest of the TOP screws, again being careful that the black edging was constant around the outside edge. I did all the screws by hand so as to not strip any of the plastic "nuts".
Contrary to Ron's instructions, I started with the front part of the bottom of the canvas. I wanted this part to look perfect and if there was any gathering to be done, I wanted it to be in the rear. So I found my center mark and screwed that right under the center hole of the rail, pulling the canvas under the rail to made the canvas tight. I used the electric screw-driver for these metal screws. I then worked my way out from the center watching the canvas so that there were no wrinkles. The corners were taut as the canvas fit so tightly, it was difficult to get the canvas around the rail. This is NOT a criticism of the canvas quality (I wanted a tight fit) just a statement of fact. I used a pair of pliers to pull the canvas tight under the rail.
I then put on the side rails and screwed in ONLY the front, middle, and rear screws on both sides. This was easy. The rear rail was a PITA, really tight and difficult to work back in there (and the sewn-in bungie cord pulling in the wrong direction), but I was able to get it with a lot of effort and a few naps :-)
I then went back along the sides and pulled the canvas tight under the rail and screwed the canvas down under the rail. I had to re-do the center of the front rail to get it a bit tighter. The most canvas that I pulled in under the bottom rail was an inch. The cut of the canvas was nearly perfect.
Pop top canvas install tips
Bob, when I replaced the canvas on my '75, I left the top attached so that I
could easily make sure I wasn't making the top too short or too tall when I
fastened it at the front. I also punched the holes after the canvas was
installed - no problem and no extra holes in that beautiful canvas. There
was no anxiety when I first raised the top, since I had already made sure it
would fit.
For the life of me, I just don't understand why everyone seems bent on
taking the top of the van or bus for this job. Leaving it on makes
fit-checking virtually instantaneous. I replaced my canvas w/o anyone's
help, just an electric staple gun (would heartily recommend this or an even
tougher air stapler) over the course of two consecutive afternoons. I went
with a PLF (plfvw.com) tent and am very pleased with the fit and quality.
Randy, Carla & Anna Huyck, Olympia, WA
I have to agree that removing the pop-top is not necessary. I removed mine though to kill the mold in the roof "fuzz". I could not get anything to work, but when I used bleach AND let the top sit in the sun, the severe mold problem I had was gone with no scrubbing. Note that it is tricky to put back on the van without scratching the roof paint - especially when you can't convince your help to be careful on the paint when you have an ugly dented van!
Now, anyone is going to replace their canvas - read-on!
A little trick I used when putting the canvas on addressed the problem of checking the fit (roof fully up) and attaching the canvas (some slack in the roof - i.e. lowered a bit.)
I tied a rope from the horizontal "pull bar:" (The bar you push or pull on to pop or un-pop the top) to the other horizontal pop-top bar This limited it's movement so that the top would retract a little, but not enough to squish me as I was lying in the top bunk. Let's call this the "limiter rope". I also tied a separate rope to the pull-bar and led it back to bed. Let's cal it the "pull-rope".
So, AS I was lying around up there, I could just pull the pull-rope and the top would retract a bit, its movement controlled by the limiter rope. Then to pop the top back up to check the fit, I would push the pull-bar with my feet, which was only a foot or so of movement and pop the top all the way back-up.
I also used PLF canvas (3-window) and am happy with the product - although mine lacked the rear elastic. Maybe they have then now. However, my wife said that after a while the canvas will get a memory and fold correctly. But until then you need someone to tuck it in a bit in the back.
The next thing to being clever is being
Install pop top canvas - bob stevens
Hi Volks,
Another testament to the great helpfulness of this list and especially
member John Carpenter. He offered me his time, home, hands and his fine work
shop today, to put the new 3-window canvas on my camper. Seems a shame to
call his facility a work shop. It's a shrine to the joy he finds in working
on his vans and just being in his shop.
Took us 6-7 hours. 0930 to about 4 with some lunch and conversation breaks.
We ultimately took the roof off the van but started the project with it on.
It became clear it would be much easier to put the tent on the roof with the
top off. It only took 10 minutes or so for the 2 of us to take it off and
about the same back on. A no-brainer that way. I also left the top slightly
slack, held up by a long pole extending from the van floor, while doing the
bottom. Attaching the bottom in the back was time-consuming due to limited
space. The instructions that came with the tent were perfect, and the one in
the archives by Malcolm Stebbins a great help. I also referred to Damon's
and another recently posted, but did not save the name.
The canvas is not as tight as the OME but I suspect, as its cotton, wetting
it and letting it sit in the sun will tighten it up some. I really like the
end product. It's much heavier, thicker, lets in much more light and I
imagine in hot weather is going to be a real boon to cooling.
I got mine from Go Westy, and it came from their Long Beach, Ca. facility.
OK John, yours is next ;>)
Bob Stevens
'87 Westy Syncro
In a message dated 3/18/04 7:28:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
vanagon@ASTOUND.NET writes:
>> I have the fiberglass roof off, upside down,and on the floor of in the
>> garage.
>>
>>
why did you take it off???? i installed the canvas on my ex-'86 westy with
the roof on the van.. the only thing i unbolted was the lift bars, at the
bottom, just so i could slip the old canvas off and new canvas on and immediately
rebolted them. there is no need to remove the roof.. i found it quite
relaxing, as 75% of the job was me laying on my back in the upper bunk screwing.
chris
