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Date:         Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:02:45 -0400
Reply-To:     The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: oil filter question
In-Reply-To:  <003401c459d8$a5b02910$34e45e44@noneq06xyh6uat>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> The Golf/Jetta has an oil filter bypass in the engine, the Vanagon >> engine does not. This is the difference between the two filters.

> Air Cooled Vanagon engines have a bypass and the WBX have > this valve too. I can prove it with pictures if it requies that.

Here is the difference, quoted verbatim from Mahle/Germany's response to these questions (and taken from the list archives)...

"The main difference between OC 108 and OC 47 is inside these filters. OC 108 has an anti-dran valve at the filter, OC 47 not. When you use OC 47 for your car (VW Tranporter/Vanagon) than you can get problems when you start your car. The motor is at this time alwys to long without oil. OC 108 have also a better paper quality than OC 47, and the pressure bypass is different. Please use for your car OC 108, to get no damage at your car or motor."

So, the differences are threefold...

1) existence of anti-drain valve (not found on the OEM Golf filter) 2) design of bypass (differs between the two models) 3) quality of paper filter element (better on the Vanagon filter)

Below are additional comments regarding Mahle's response, provided by the listmember who had queried Mahle about this in the first place. The only difference is that his reference to Mann being the same as Bosch does not apply to the U.S. market, where Bosch is actually a Champion filter......

"Now for some background. The e-mail is verbetim -spelling error and bad english et al. Obviously, Sandra's English is not the best, but you can all undertand what she is trying to say. (Besides, who am I to criticize somebody's English!!) The OEM filters on VW's are either Mann/Bosch or Mahle/Knecht. VW Dealers usually carry Mann (same as Bosch) while most foreign autoparts stores carry Knecht (same as Mahle) if you ask for OEM filters. I wrote to both Mann/Bosch and Mahle/Knecht but only Mahl/Knecht anwered my inquiry. OC108 is the filter listed for the Vanagon and OC47 is listed for the Rabbit/Golf.

Here's why the difference is important for all of us Vanagon owners. The by-pass valve and the "anti-drain" or anti-flow back valve is critical to our engine.

1. The by-pass valve. You all know that if the filter is clogged, and pressure built up, the by-pass valve opens up to let oil through. The idea being that dirty oil is better than no oil. However, the other reason for the pressure by-pass is even more important. During a cold start, when the temp is low and the oil is thick, it will not transverse the filter elements very much..which builds up pressure. .and enough so that the by-pass valve opens up. If it fails to do so, your engile bearing will be starve for oil until the oil warms up enough to go through the filter. The by-pass pressure for the Rabbit/Golf filter is set differently than for the one in the Vanagon. (The Vanagon is lower)

2. Anti-Drain/Anti-backflow valve. Here is the CRITICAL difference. The Rabbit/Golf oil filter do NOT have anti-drain valve. Neither does most other 3rd party vendors like FRAM, AC Delco etc. Filters that are meant to be mounted on it side or at an angle will have the anti-drain valve. The Rabbit/Golf filter is mount bottom down. The Vanagon filter is tilted on it side. When you leave your engine off over night, filters mounted on it's side or tilted will drain all or most of the oil back to the sump unless there is an anti-drain valve to keep the oil in the filter. Back flow will put dirt particles back in the sump but MORE IMPORTANTLY, when you startup in the morning your Vanagon will be starved of oil until the pump refills the filter canister. This is why some of you hear banging noise in your engine for a few minutes after you startup in the mornings... YOU ARE USING THE WRONG FILTER! The anti-drain valve shuts off reverse flow of oil back to the sump, thus keeping oil in the filter and all the upper oil passage way. In that way, there is oil pressure in the bearings as soon as you restart your engine in the morning. And if the pressure by-pass valve is working, you will have instantaneous oil pressure in your critical engine parts.

Now, some models of FRAM have anti-drain back valve.. but it is just a little plastic flap over the exit portal. The ones in the Mahle/Knecht filter is a spring loaded metal valve. Take a pick of what filters you want to use in your beloved Vanagons, but make sure it as anti-drain back valve... and the by-pass pressure valve is set correctly for the vanagon engine.

Anyway, folks.. here it is.. do not use Rabbit/Golf filters in your vanagons. You can use Vanagon oil filters in your Rabbit/Golf.

Now, I am sure some of you have been using Rabbit/Golf oil filters in your Vanagons and it is still alive an well.. Dumb luck never hurts when owning a Vanagon!

- Yau-Man Chan "

- Ron Salmon The Bus Depot, Inc. www.busdepot.com (215) 234-VWVW

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