Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:31:08 -0500
Reply-To: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: What is a Hard Start Relay Kit? Who sells them?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
If postings are down on the Vanagon list it could be because folks won't let
some dead subjects pass into cyber trash.
If you want to buy that rip off kit to fix something that just needs a good
cleaning then go ahead.
The term robust sounds good since my 20 and 27 year old starter solenoids
are still working as designed.
Of about ten Vanagons of pre 83 vintage passing thorough my hands in 10
years the solenoids were all working after I cleaned them and stripped off
the solenoid kits.
If you don't try the FREE cleaning routine first then I'm going to tell
everybody that you're a Modern Consumer.
Stan Wilder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack" <john.cook58@VERIZON.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: What is a Hard Start Relay Kit? Who sells them?
> Ok. Point by point. But I doubt if anyone is listening. So, it's a
waste
> of time. But being retired now ...
>
> - re: "The original system was not robust.
> The term "robust" is somewhat subjective - that's why I didn't use it for
> the stock starter system. Obviously, people have had problems which
> suggests it's not terribly robust. Nevertheless, given the numbers, the
> engineers probably made their trade-off decision between cost &
reliability
> correctly. I mean the engineers may want to gold plate all their
connectors
> but the marketing people will quickly stop that because no one would pay
the
> price. Real world. BTDT (in my previous life.).
>
> - "... not exactly aircraft quality."
> No. How many Vanagons do you think would have sold if they had used what
> you called aircraft quality and raised the price accordingly. I'm sure I
> wouldn't have my '85 now.
>
> - Open crimp contacts.
> Amazingly reliable, actually. Gas tight connections if crimped properly.
> Pull one apart & push it back a couple of times & you've cleaned it unless
> the corrosion was bad enough to lose material. Then grease it to slow
down
> the inevitable degradation - which will happen to any non-hermetic
connector
> system. That's why the most common mantra heard on this list is to "clean
> the grounds"!
>
> - 9V. On a clean system??? Color me skeptical. But then we should know
> that a solenoid will be expected to operate at less than full voltage -
not
> rocket science. Do you think the engineers were stupid? And it seems
like
> the system does function just fine until significant degradation sets in.
>
> - "These all go for many years until corrosion, gremlins cause trouble."
> Yes. We all agree. Then it's maintenance time. Which means correcting
the
> problems which occur over time.
>
> In all fairness, I did say before that adding a relay WILL reduce the
> voltage drop - that means the day you have to correct problems will be
> delayed. But the problems will continue to develop until you have no
> choice. I think that's what people seem to be missing. But maybe adding
> patches is the right way. It's just not mine.
>
> - "... re-terminating all the connections, pulling a new wire..."
> That sounds kinda extreme. If mine was in that bad a shape, I'd hang my
> head and sell it quick, because that wire is going to be the least of your
> problems. But I have to admit to being a native Californian & not having
> the road salt problem.
>
> - " I'm done."
> Ditto. No serious disagreements, I think, but I wanted to clarify my
> position. Thanks for the opportunity.
>
> //Jack
>
>
>
>
> Date sent: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:05:24 -0700
> Subject: Re: What is a Hard Start Relay Kit? Who sells
them?
> Copies to: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> To: Jack <john.cook58@VERIZON.NET>
> From: Mad and Ed <MadEd@gte.net>
>
> > Not to drag this out..but...
> >
> > The original system was not robust. It used a long length of barely
> > adequate wire with open crimp terminals, not exactly aircraft quality.
The
> > voltage drop can and does go below 9v. These all go for many years
until
> > corrosion, gremlins cause trouble. Adding the relay IS a sensible
alternate
> > to going through re-terminating all the connections, pulling a new wire
and
> > winding up with something subject to the same failure. Once it is done
you
> > can take comfort in knowing at least that circuit is reliable; starter
> > problems are probably in the starter. In the unlikely event of relay
failure
> > you can still go if you jump the relay terminals. I'm done.
> >
> > On Friday, Jun 25, 2004, at 11:04 US/Pacific, Jack wrote:
> >
> > > Hooray!!! Someone speaking up with some common sense.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: If the starter solenoid isn't working as designed, find
> > > what's wrong & fix it! Adding a relay is patching a problem. This is
your
> > > conscience speaking ;-)
> >
> > Edward Lowe
> > Seattle, WA
> > 82 Westy Diesel upgraded to 1.9lt. Turbo
> > 85 Golf Diesel 1.6lt NA
> > 92 Cabrio 1.8lt gas
> > 97 Passat Tdi
> >
| 
