Date:         Wed, 7 Jul 2004 11:19:07 -0400
Reply-To:     The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Opinions on Bilstein vs. KYB shocks desired
In-Reply-To:  <BAY8-F22KleTT6dE50H000bc780@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Any listmember opinions on whether or not the Bilsteins are
> worth the extra money over KYB shocks would be appreciated.
> My VW mechanic charges about twice as much for the Bilsteins.

> My VW mechanic feels (as do I) that they are equal as
> shocks...the selling point for me is that KYB has a lifetime
> warranty, and I keep cars for a loooong time.  I've taken
> advantage of the warranty once already for my bug with
> absolutely no problem.


I must say that I can't imagine anybody who has actually driven a
Vanagon with both KYB's and Bilsteins claiming that they are equal. In
my opinion the Bilstein's simply outclass the KYB's in every way - which
they should, given the price difference. If you search KYB in the
archives you'll find mixed reviews of the KYB's, some saying that they
are a good shock for the money (which they are), and many criticizing
them for being too harsh riding. The latter is subjective. I don't
personally find the KYB's to be objectionally stiff, but some users do.
Regardless, the overwhelming list consensus over the years has been that
the Bilsteins are far superior to the KYB's (again, not surprising for
the price difference). In fact I think this will be the first opinion
voiced to the list, in the nearly ten years that I have been on it, that
the two are equal. I must strongly disagree with this statement. The
KYB's are a decent shock for the money and we sell many of them. But
they're no Bilsteins.

As for a lifetime warranty, this really shouldn't be a major issue on a
good shock. A good shock will probably last you a good 60-80k miles or
more anyway. My original VW shocks lasted me close to 100k miles. If the
shock fails within a few years this would lead me to question its
quality to begin with.  Not that the KYB's generally do. Although we do
take back slightly more defective KYB's than the more expensive brands,
they are generally quite reliable.) More important in my opinion is the
ride quality and handling that you will experience for the many years
that you will be using the shocks that you buy. Both in terms of comfort
and in terms of safety when you most need good handling.

My recommendation is the AlKo shocks, which at about $50 each will take
you much closer to the Bilstein ride at a much lower price. They are an
oil-filled shock, so not as hard-riding as the KYB, yet very heavy duty
and with a very controlled ride. I have had nothing but positive reports
about the AlKo's from customers. They are the best Vanagon shock value
in my opinion, and I highly recommend them.  Links:

Front: <http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=AL2828>
Rear: <http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=AL2124>

I'll also mention that for anyone looking for a cheap shock alternative,
we have a limited quantity of Gabriel's highest-end offering, for
$19.95.  I brought these in response to those who find the KYB's too
hard but are limited to a low price range. But first I spoke to
Gabriel's engineering department to learn a bit about them. I was
satisfied after speaking to their techs that these are a carefully
thought out product, not just slapped together, and certainly higher-end
than the entry-level shocks that they sell to many discount stores.
These have variable internal valving to improve handling on bumps (as
found on many higher priced shocks). According to Gabriel this shock is
not designed to be as stiff as the KYB, and it does seem heavier duty
than the Cofaps and others I've seen in its price range. I have not
tried them personally, so I can't issue a strong recommendation as I
could with the AlKo's, and I certainly would not claim them to be equal
to an AlKo or Bilstein. As they say, you get what you pay for.  Still,
they seem to be an inexpensive alternative to KYB for those who want a
slightly softer ride and are on a very limited budget. Links:

Front: <http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=251413031FBR>
Rear: <http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=251513031FBR>
Syncro Rear ($25):
<http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=251513031DOR>


- Ron Salmon
  The Bus Depot, Inc.
  www.busdepot.com
  (215)  234-VWVW

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