Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:35:47 -0700
Reply-To: MC <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: MC <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: OEM Pop Top Seals
In-Reply-To: <6.2e50fb20.2e2e26b8@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jeff,
You brought up a superior that I failed to mention on the OE seal being
the front portion of the pop top seal that has steel spring clip holding
it in place. While I was researching for the replacement seal I pay more
attention of how the factory seal's design especially the shapes of each
portion and their intended functions. I was surprised how much work will
take to construct an AM seal to function properly.
I then went to all AM suppliers' website and see what they have to
offer. None of them present more than a thumbnail picture of the seal.
I also notice many offer the pop top seal without the front "flat seal".
Obviously this is due the the unique shape of it's cross section that
the garden variety off-the-shelf seals does not come remotely close to
this. I have not seen Ron's seal how this is constructed. Even at a
very affordable price of ~$70 I didn't feel the odd of meeting my
expectation stacks in my favor. I have seen a some AM seal installed on
few vehicles I chance to encounter. I was not too impressed with any
upon close inspection.
About the luggage seal. It is not meant to totally seal against the
roof. The water drains from the fiberglass luggage rack's drilled holes
must channels between the rubber seal and the roof because there is no
drainage tube. I believe only the frontal portion is meant to seal tight
against the roof to prevent whistling. Likewise the gaps on the sides
are design to compromise between not to whistle at speed and yet
channels water and debries the size that get through the hole diameter
of the drainage holes.
My seals are the original ones and they have serviced 15 years. Owing to
the very pristine condition of the vehicle I am willing to spring the
money for the OE seals. I contacted Jeff at vanagonparts recently and he
confirm he can obtain the OE seals from his source in Germany at a
significant discount about half of what VW charge. They will ship from
Germany and it will take many weeks to arrive.
- Vince
-----Original Message-----
From: Oxroad@aol.com [mailto:Oxroad@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 12:42 AM
To: gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Subject: Re: OEM Pop Top Seals
In a message dated 7/19/2004 10:16:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET writes:
OK! I read enough about how stupid the Westfalia OE seal is
I too think the OEM seal is getting a bit of a bad wrap.
My OEM seal from the factory lasted 15 years with no problems. My
longest relationship was about five years and loaded with problems. The
OEM seal had the internal metal spring. There was some spring in the
relationship at the beginning. I'm not sure what this spring was made
of, possibly false hope.
I replaced the original seal after 15 years of dedicated service because
it began to rust and as a result, sag. After three years of dedicated
service the woman did not rust, but I was faced with the same problem.
I installed an aftermarket seal on the bus which has performed fine for
5 years. I'll let you know in another 10 years if it has the same
longevity of the OEM seal.
Here is what I liked about the original seal, and why I might use it if
I had the money to spend.
The front piece of the OEM seal--that is to say the piece that crosses
the roof at the front of the pop top area--had a metal clip
mechanism--let's say spring clip--the width of the pop top. This made it
more secure in its mounting than the aftermarket piece in my opinion.
The Aftermarket front piece has no metal and no clipping mechanism at
all. I think I may have used some adhesive on this aftermarket front
piece in the installation. As a result of no metal in the front cross
over piece on installation the aftermarket front piece did not want to
make a seal to the luggage rack when the pop top was closed. I had to
shim the luggage rack up so it would meet the rubber. This was a huge
two-day PIA to get it right. My experience in this may have been unique
to my bus. I don't know if others encountered this.
The OEM front piece with the metal clip within also seemed to seal
better because the internal metal forced the front part of the seal
down--or allowed it to stay down, whereas the aftermarket piece with no
metal inside was obviously less rigid.
That brings me to the second thing I liked about the OEM seal--the
luggage rack seal. In my opinion the OEM luggage rack seal is
infinitally better than any after market luggage rack seal I have seen.
In fact the after market luggage rack seals I have seen and have
installed on my bus is not a seal at all. It is a trim piece only. It
does not get snug to the roof. My guess is if I took the bus in a wind
tunnel this lack of sealing would create poorer aerodynamics. But we all
realise we're talking about a Vanagon here, so aerodynamics may not be a
chief concern.
Now this aftermarket luggage rack seal looks fine. But I think it worked
in consort to make the seal from the front of the closed pop top to the
luggage rack poor. I think the OEM luggage rack seal would hold the
luggage rack up slightly higher--enough to allow me to avoid all the
shimming. And then with the internal metal of the front cross over
piece--I think the seal would have come from there and been superior.
I had no real trouble or complaint about the pop stop seal as far as
mating the the three side wrap around part to the separate cross over
the top piece piece. I measured and cut carefully and in the tiny, tiny
gap between the two I used black silicone sealant to "calk" the gap and
it looks pretty darn stock. This part was really quite easy.
So I would say the OEM pop top seal lasting 15 years is really a pretty
good run. I would have used one for the second 15 years except that the
price is prohibative. But I mean really, let's all take a step back here
in condemning the OEM seal. 15 years seems a fair longevity for a piece
of equipment that performs the function the seal performs. And whether
the seal had aluminium or steel inside is it really gonna last more than
15 years?
If I run into some money I would get the front OEM luggage rack seal in
a minute, because to me it looks and functions better than the
aftermarket luggage rack seal.
That's my 2 cents.
I was kidding about the relationship stuff, mostly, so no one need take
offense.
Best
Jeff
83.5 Wesfalia
LA,CA
