Date:         Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:20:10 -0400
Reply-To:     The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: OEM Pop Top Seals
In-Reply-To:  <6.2e50fb20.2e2e26b8@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Okay, time for my annual poptop seal dissertation... :-)


> The front piece of the OEM seal--that is to say the piece
> that crosses the roof at the front of the pop top area--had a
> metal clip mechanism--let's say spring clip--the width of the
> pop top. This made it more secure in its mounting than the
> aftermarket piece in my opinion. The Aftermarket front piece
> has no metal and no clipping mechanism at all. I think I may
> have used some adhesive on this aftermarket front piece in
> the installation. This was a huge two-day PIA to get it right.

This applies to all aftermarket seals except for mine. The one I
currently offer, like the OEM one, has a metal clip across the entire
width.  But unlike the OEM one, the spring clip is made of no-rust
aluminum.


> Have you read about folks who replace the OE seal with
>  after market only to find the seal does not stay put?

I can't remember ever getting a complaint of this happening with my
seals. The ones on my own Vanagon have lasted years without moving or
drooping. And will continue to, since they do not rust. By comparison
the factory seal will start to droop as soon as rust sets in.


> About the luggage seal. It is not meant to totally seal against
> the roof. The water drains from the fiberglass luggage rack's
> drilled holes must channels between the rubber seal and the
> roof because there is no drainage tube. I believe only the frontal
> portion is meant to seal tight against the roof to prevent whistling.
> Likewise the gaps on the sides are design to compromise
> between not to whistle at speed and yet channels water and
> debries the size that get through the hole diameter of the
> drainage holes.

All vendors besides me ship a fully bulbed seal as a luggage rack seal.
The reason they do this is that most of them are selling a generic
off-the-shelf weatherstrip as poptop seal (whereas mine is custom-made
for this purpose), and are simply lobbing off a little more from the
same roll to be used as luggage rack seal. This saves them money/hassle,
but it is a bad idea because, like the poptop seal, it is an actual
seal, and will completely seal off the bottom of the luggage rack. The
original seal is not intended to do this, as it must allow rainwater to
drain through the top of the rack and into the rain gutters. It is more
of a trimpiece.  It does have a little bit of a lip, but not an actual
seal. But in the aftermarket there is no such middle-ground. Either the
seal has an insulation bulb or it doesn't.

There are two solutions to this:  1) Use a non-bulbed seal or 2) use a
bulbed one, but cut it to allow water drainage along the sides. The
advantage to the first solution is that it makes it possible to install
the seal without loosening or removing the luggage rack. This is good
because it can be difficult and time consuming to snug the rack back
down once you loosen it, thereby causing a new set of problems. So it's
best if you don't have to mess with it. The only difficulty that has
ever been reported using a non-bulbed seal is that a very small
percentage of users - less than 1 out of every 200 - get wind noise due
to wind getting under the front of the luggage rack while driving. Since
this happens extremely infrequently, I must assume something unusual
about those poptops versus the other 199. My guess is that the luggage
rack on those vans is, due to age/wear, sitting just slightly higher off
of the roof, causing too much of a gap. One solution is to tighten the
rack down and close the small gap. The other is to go to option 2 and
use a bubled seal, but trim the bulb on the sides.  This will require
loosening the luggage rack to install it.

We sell both styles of luggage rack seal. The standard one we ship is
bulbless, simply because it's much easier to install, excellent for
water drainage, and effective on 99.5% of Vanagons. But we also sell the
bulbed variety if you want to start off that way, or in the event that
you do get wind noise with the non-bulbed seal.

Speaking of insulation bulbs, the insulation bub used on our poptop seal
is located lower on the seal, resulting in a better seal than the other
aftermarket ones. This is because ours is designed for use on VW poptops
and not just a generic seal. You will not get any water leakage with a
Bus Depot poptop seal, even in severe rain.

Finally, cosmetically our seal is closer to stock. Many aftermarket
seals are shorter in height, leaving part of the poptop exposed that was
covered by the original seal. If you have rust stains from the original
seal, the other aftermarket seals may not cover them. My poptop seal is
about 1/8" taller than most, and roughly the same height as the
original. If you have ever had to remove rust stains, you know that it
can be a grueling process to do this even on a couple of feet, much less
the entire circumference of a poptop. If my seal covers your rust stains
while the other aftermarket ones would not, this could save you half a
day's tedious labor. Also, the stock seal is completely smooth, whereas
most aftermarket seals have a pebbled finish. While I was unable to get
a completely smooth finish, mine is much closer than the textured one
sold elsewhere. You hardly notice the difference, and would probably
never know at all if you weren't looking at them side by side.

I will try to get pics of our seals up on our site in due time, although
I'm not sure you would be able to notice the myriad differences from a
small pic. Of course a huge number of listmembers have my seals, so
there are probably any number of Vanagon pictures already out there that
show these seals as well.

Poptop seals were the Bus Depot's very first product and a lot of
time/effort was spent on getting them right. I first tried - and
rejected - every single commercially available aftermarket seal before
deciding that I would have to design my own. So don't confuse our seals
with the other poptop seals out there, which are generally just generic
off-the-shelf weatherstrip marketed as "poptop seals."  Ours are made to
higher specifications and are not available anywhere else.

Off my soapbox ...

- Ron Salmon
  The Bus Depot, Inc.
  www.busdepot.com
  (215)  234-VWVW

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