Date:         Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:42:48 -0400
Reply-To:     "Myers, Thomas A" <Thomas.Myers@USA.XEROX.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Myers, Thomas A" <Thomas.Myers@USA.XEROX.COM>
Subject:      Fire Suppression Solutions 2
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I looked this company up yesterday after the fuel / fire discussion.

seems like a good low - tech solution

for someone looking for a fire suppression system.  getting it rigged
together with a

fuel pump cut off would probably be the optimum solution


http://www.firetrace.com/frames.html


Tom

        ----------
        From:   Vanagon Mailing List on behalf of John Rodgers
        Reply To:       John Rodgers
        Sent:   Tuesday, August 3, 2004 11:58 AM
        To:     vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
        Subject:        Fire Suppression Solutions

        Having had the good fortune to survive two fuel hose breaks in the
        engine compartment without a fire - and for the life of me I don't
know
        why it didn't burn except perhaps my Maker was with me - I have
given
        the fire suppression thing a great deal of thought.

        What comes to mind that could be installed in our vans is a system
        similar to that found in airplanes. There are many different ways
fire
        detection and suppression is handled in aircraft but essentially
fire
        control systems consist of two parts. Fire Detection and Fire
Suppression.

        The fire detection subsystem would of course have some type of smoke
and
        UV sensors mounted in the engine bay, connected to  alarms - both
light
        and sound - installed in the dash somewhere. There are so many
choices
        of both the sensors and alarms that I won't try to address the
specifics
        here.

        For the fire suppression side of things, in aircraft, fire
suppression
        materials in cylinders are often used, in conjunction with a
        distribution system, and discharge control handles. Similar to this,
in
        a special computer building I once worked on for the USAF and Corps
of
        engineers, was installed a huge network of plumbing under the floors
of
        the main computer room and all had discharge points strategically
        placed.  Additionally, there was plumbing on the ceiling with
discharge
        points into the room. This plumbing was connected to a bank of Halon
        cylinders, each the size of a 100 lb propane tank. There were ten of
        these as I recall.  There were sensory zones, and if a fire/smoke
        detection was made by any one sensors in one zone, the alarms went
off.
        If two sensors detected fire/smoke in a zone the halon discharged
        automatically. The system was designed to completely flood the the
space
        with halon forcing out all oxygen. The alarm system was to give
people
        time to get out before the halon discharged and air was cut off.

        Using the principles and examples just discussed, something similar
        could be installed in the Vanagons. A copper tubing fire suppression
        ring - stainless or other if one can afford it - could be mounted
over
        and around the engine. A CO2 cylinder or a halon cylinder could be
        mounted under the back seat or even forward somewhere - under the
floor,
        or up between the front seats where one can get at it easily and
read
        the cylinder pressure, . someplace anyway, with discharge line back
to
        the fire suppression ring. A pull handle for the  cylinder  would
be
        available to actuate the cylinder - by cable if the the tank is
remote,
        by simply squeezing the handle on the tank if it is mounted between
the
        seats.  But some means to actuate the cylinder would need to be
        provided. The chemical cylinder would need to be big enough to
        completely flood the engine compartment sufficiently so that even
with
        the chemicals that would escape out the bottom under the engine,
there
        would be enough going into the area to suffocate any flames.

        Tied to this system would be a fuel shut off of some type- automatic
or
        manual.

        This entire thing could be automated, if one has the money for the
        extras, or it can be set up to be done manually

        Of course if there is enough money, anything can be built, but then
on
        the other hand, if superior preventive maintenance practices are
        applied, and the fuel lines are continually checked for wear and
tear,
        and hoses routinely replaced with new, so they don't get a chance to
get
        "Old" and rotten, the chances of ever having an engine fire are
reduced
        to the minuscule.

        Just my thoughts on it this morning - reflecting on what happened
with
        my fuel lines. In my case, it was new fuel lines that failed. But
not
        through rot, but through vibration wearing holes in places unseen.

        Can't be careful enough.

        Regards,

        John Rodgers
        88 GL Driver