Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:35:31 -0400
Reply-To: vw4x4@FYI.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Zeno <vw4x4@FYI.NET>
Subject: Re: Use this for fire safetey... AND eliminate the fire hazard...
In-Reply-To: <41126665.1080602@bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
One note that no one has mentioned on this topic.
VW engines are not magnesium. They are an Aluminum
alloyed, just like any other car part that ford or GM makes.
No cast Aluminum metal is pure. All cast Aluminum parts
have some sort of alloyed to adapt to its particular application.
In this situation there is more magnesium then other types
of Aluminum. I do not know for sure but I would bet that
it is not that much different than any other cast Aluminum.
Given the above, I have no fear of any problems this fire, OR
the entire world will burn to the ground soon.
Eric
John Rodgers wrote:
> I almost agree with Stan on this.
>
> 1) If the magnesium in the engine area burns, steel engine covers will
> gain you some time to remove your valuables from the van. But the
> likely-hood of putting the fire out is slim.
>
> 2) Magnesium is so active at combustion temperatures it will burn under
> water by splitting oxygen from the H2O molecule and consuming it, also
> releasing hydrogen which will also burn so the fire department will do
> little good.
>
> 3) Magnesium will burn in a pure carbon dioxide environment, so CO2
> extinguishers will do little good. Magnesium burns so hot, and at
> burning temperatures is so chemically active a metal, that it will split
> the oxygen from the CO2 molecule and consume it, thus the fire keeps
> burning and tremendous amounts of pure carbon are released.
>
> 4) If enough CO2 is sprayed on the magnesium flame, it may be possible
> to chill the metal to a point below combustion temperature, but I
> personally have never seen that achieved.
>
> During WW II engine manufacturers used magnesium extensively in the
> aircraft engines, particularly the ones used in bombers, in an attempt
> to make the engines lighter so the aircraft could carry a bigger bomb
> load. Although there were fire suppression systems on board, pilots knew
> that if they had an engine fire, it was a given they were going to lose
> a wing, because with the wind of flight fanning the flames of a burning
> magnesium engine case, the engie mount, aluminum skin and spars in the
> wings were going to get hot enough to bend if not burn. Thus an engine
> would come off the airplane and there would be wing failure and crash.
>
> Though all this sounds terrible and the implication is bad for Vanagons,
> it is still prudent to do what one can to fire protect the vehicle, and
> make it possible to salvage as much as possible in the unfortunate event
> of a fire.
>
> I was told once about the difference between a recession and a
> depression. A recession is when your neighbor is out of work. A
> depression is when you are out of work. Statistically, not a lot of
> vehicles burn, but when it's your's, that's 100% to many.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
>
>
>
> Stan Wilder wrote:
>
>> Steel engine covers will not stop the fire from going into the
>> interior of
>> your Vanagon.
>> There are still magnesium parts on VWs. Like the fan shroud, tranny
>> cases.
>> Stan Wilder
>> www.engineceramics.com
>>
>>
>
>
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