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Date:         Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:22:24 -0500
Reply-To:     John Rodgers <jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Rodgers <jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Use this for fire safetey... AND eliminate the fire hazard...
Comments: To: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@sbcglobal.net>
In-Reply-To:  <003d01c47b1e$d02aaeb0$ef02fea9@none8d9z0zb52k>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Actually, if it's gone far enough to get the magnesium burning, then it ain't gonna be a marshmellow roast!!

John Rodgers 88 GL Driver

Stan Wilder wrote:

>4) If enough CO2 is sprayed on the magnesium flame, it may be possible to >chill the metal to a point below combustion temperature, but I personally >have never seen that achieved. >--------------------- Clip ------------------------ >How the hell do you get close enough to spray it with CO2? >Ever seen magnesium burn ?................. it is exactly like 1000 welding >rods burning at the same time. >When you look at the fire you can close your eyes and still burn your >eyeballs right through your eyelids. > >Stan Wilder >www.engineceramics.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Rodgers" <jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET> >To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:55 AM >Subject: Re: Use this for fire safetey... AND eliminate the fire hazard... > > > > >>I almost agree with Stan on this. >> >>1) If the magnesium in the engine area burns, steel engine covers will >>gain you some time to remove your valuables from the van. But the >>likely-hood of putting the fire out is slim. >> >>2) Magnesium is so active at combustion temperatures it will burn under >>water by splitting oxygen from the H2O molecule and consuming it, also >>releasing hydrogen which will also burn so the fire department will do >>little good. >> >>3) Magnesium will burn in a pure carbon dioxide environment, so CO2 >>extinguishers will do little good. Magnesium burns so hot, and at >>burning temperatures is so chemically active a metal, that it will split >>the oxygen from the CO2 molecule and consume it, thus the fire keeps >>burning and tremendous amounts of pure carbon are released. >> >>4) If enough CO2 is sprayed on the magnesium flame, it may be possible >>to chill the metal to a point below combustion temperature, but I >>personally have never seen that achieved. >> >>During WW II engine manufacturers used magnesium extensively in the >>aircraft engines, particularly the ones used in bombers, in an attempt >>to make the engines lighter so the aircraft could carry a bigger bomb >>load. Although there were fire suppression systems on board, pilots knew >>that if they had an engine fire, it was a given they were going to lose >>a wing, because with the wind of flight fanning the flames of a burning >>magnesium engine case, the engie mount, aluminum skin and spars in the >>wings were going to get hot enough to bend if not burn. Thus an engine >>would come off the airplane and there would be wing failure and crash. >> >>Though all this sounds terrible and the implication is bad for Vanagons, >>it is still prudent to do what one can to fire protect the vehicle, and >>make it possible to salvage as much as possible in the unfortunate event >>of a fire. >> >>I was told once about the difference between a recession and a >>depression. A recession is when your neighbor is out of work. A >>depression is when you are out of work. Statistically, not a lot of >>vehicles burn, but when it's your's, that's 100% to many. >> >>Regards, >> >>John Rodgers >>88 GL Driver >> >> >> >>Stan Wilder wrote: >> >> >> >>>Steel engine covers will not stop the fire from going into the interior >>> >>> >of > > >>>your Vanagon. >>>There are still magnesium parts on VWs. Like the fan shroud, tranny >>> >>> >cases. > > >>>Stan Wilder >>>www.engineceramics.com >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >


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