Date:         Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:48:23 -0700
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fire Suppression Solutions 2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Commercial kitchen exhaust system use a pressurized cansister that is
triggered by the failure (melting) of a fusible link. They're usually
designed to melt at around 600 degrees, but it varies. The link fails, the
trigger cable (which is under tension, held by the link) snaps back and the
suppressant material flows through the pipes and out the nozzles. Seems to
me that something similar could be rigged into the rear of a van. The cable
could be attached to a mechanical fuel valve as well. This system wouldn't
need to rely on the van's goofy electrical system, but an alarm could also
be wired in if desired.

Cya,
Robert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Myers, Thomas A" <Thomas.Myers@USA.XEROX.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Fire Suppression Solutions 2


> I looked this company up yesterday after the fuel / fire discussion.
>
> seems like a good low - tech solution
>
> for someone looking for a fire suppression system.  getting it rigged
> together with a
>
> fuel pump cut off would probably be the optimum solution
>
>
> http://www.firetrace.com/frames.html
>
>
> Tom
>
>         ----------
>         From:   Vanagon Mailing List on behalf of John Rodgers
>         Reply To:       John Rodgers
>         Sent:   Tuesday, August 3, 2004 11:58 AM
>         To:     vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>         Subject:        Fire Suppression Solutions
>
>         Having had the good fortune to survive two fuel hose breaks in the
>         engine compartment without a fire - and for the life of me I don't
> know
>         why it didn't burn except perhaps my Maker was with me - I have
> given
>         the fire suppression thing a great deal of thought.
>
>         What comes to mind that could be installed in our vans is a system
>         similar to that found in airplanes. There are many different ways
> fire
>         detection and suppression is handled in aircraft but essentially
> fire
>         control systems consist of two parts. Fire Detection and Fire
> Suppression.
>
>         The fire detection subsystem would of course have some type of
smoke
> and
>         UV sensors mounted in the engine bay, connected to  alarms - both
> light
>         and sound - installed in the dash somewhere. There are so many
> choices
>         of both the sensors and alarms that I won't try to address the
> specifics
>         here.
>
>         For the fire suppression side of things, in aircraft, fire
> suppression
>         materials in cylinders are often used, in conjunction with a
>         distribution system, and discharge control handles. Similar to
this,
> in
>         a special computer building I once worked on for the USAF and
Corps
> of
>         engineers, was installed a huge network of plumbing under the
floors
> of
>         the main computer room and all had discharge points strategically
>         placed.  Additionally, there was plumbing on the ceiling with
> discharge
>         points into the room. This plumbing was connected to a bank of
Halon
>         cylinders, each the size of a 100 lb propane tank. There were ten
of
>         these as I recall.  There were sensory zones, and if a fire/smoke
>         detection was made by any one sensors in one zone, the alarms went
> off.
>         If two sensors detected fire/smoke in a zone the halon discharged
>         automatically. The system was designed to completely flood the the
> space
>         with halon forcing out all oxygen. The alarm system was to give
> people
>         time to get out before the halon discharged and air was cut off.
>
>         Using the principles and examples just discussed, something
similar
>         could be installed in the Vanagons. A copper tubing fire
suppression
>         ring - stainless or other if one can afford it - could be mounted
> over
>         and around the engine. A CO2 cylinder or a halon cylinder could be
>         mounted under the back seat or even forward somewhere - under the
> floor,
>         or up between the front seats where one can get at it easily and
> read
>         the cylinder pressure, . someplace anyway, with discharge line
back
> to
>         the fire suppression ring. A pull handle for the  cylinder  would
> be
>         available to actuate the cylinder - by cable if the the tank is
> remote,
>         by simply squeezing the handle on the tank if it is mounted
between
> the
>         seats.  But some means to actuate the cylinder would need to be
>         provided. The chemical cylinder would need to be big enough to
>         completely flood the engine compartment sufficiently so that even
> with
>         the chemicals that would escape out the bottom under the engine,
> there
>         would be enough going into the area to suffocate any flames.
>
>         Tied to this system would be a fuel shut off of some type-
automatic
> or
>         manual.
>
>         This entire thing could be automated, if one has the money for the
>         extras, or it can be set up to be done manually
>
>         Of course if there is enough money, anything can be built, but
then
> on
>         the other hand, if superior preventive maintenance practices are
>         applied, and the fuel lines are continually checked for wear and
> tear,
>         and hoses routinely replaced with new, so they don't get a chance
to
> get
>         "Old" and rotten, the chances of ever having an engine fire are
> reduced
>         to the minuscule.
>
>         Just my thoughts on it this morning - reflecting on what happened
> with
>         my fuel lines. In my case, it was new fuel lines that failed. But
> not
>         through rot, but through vibration wearing holes in places unseen.
>
>         Can't be careful enough.
>
>         Regards,
>
>         John Rodgers
>         88 GL Driver