Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:11:21 -0400
Reply-To: tmiller <tmiller@VCMAILS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: tmiller <tmiller@VCMAILS.COM>
Subject: Re: Use this for fire safetey... AND eliminate the fire hazard...
In-Reply-To: <4114D732.15748.CE746F@localhost>
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Purple K (K for potassium) powder fire extinguishers were used in the
Navy top put out jet fuel and other fuel oil fires. Magnesium fires
were pushed off the flight deck!<br>
<br>
Jack wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid4114D732.15748.CE746F@localhost">
<pre wrap="">Years ago, I worked in a military trailer which I understood was made of
magnesium. Next to the doors were large "Purple K" fire extinguishers,
which I was told was for magnesium fires. (Actually, I was told to just
start running if there's a fire.) Anyone familiar with those?
//Jack
Date sent: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:22:24 -0500
Send reply to: John Rodgers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET"><jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET></a>
From: John Rodgers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET"><jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET></a>
Subject: Re: Use this for fire safetey... AND eliminate the fire hazard...
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM">vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Actually, if it's gone far enough to get the magnesium burning, then it
ain't gonna be a marshmellow roast!!
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Stan Wilder wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">4) If enough CO2 is sprayed on the magnesium flame, it may be possible to
chill the metal to a point below combustion temperature, but I personally
have never seen that achieved. --------------------- Clip
------------------------ How the hell do you get close enough to spray it
with CO2? Ever seen magnesium burn ?................. it is exactly like
1000 welding rods burning at the same time. When you look at the fire you
can close your eyes and still burn your eyeballs right through your eyelids.
Stan Wilder
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.engineceramics.com">www.engineceramics.com</a>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET"><jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM"><vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM></a>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Use this for fire safetey... AND eliminate the fire hazard...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I almost agree with Stan on this.
1) If the magnesium in the engine area burns, steel engine covers will gain
you some time to remove your valuables from the van. But the likely-hood of
putting the fire out is slim.
2) Magnesium is so active at combustion temperatures it will burn under
water by splitting oxygen from the H2O molecule and consuming it, also
releasing hydrogen which will also burn so the fire department will do
little good.
3) Magnesium will burn in a pure carbon dioxide environment, so CO2
extinguishers will do little good. Magnesium burns so hot, and at
burning temperatures is so chemically active a metal, that it will split
the oxygen from the CO2 molecule and consume it, thus the fire keeps
burning and tremendous amounts of pure carbon are released.
4) If enough CO2 is sprayed on the magnesium flame, it may be possible to
chill the metal to a point below combustion temperature, but I personally
have never seen that achieved.
During WW II engine manufacturers used magnesium extensively in the
aircraft engines, particularly the ones used in bombers, in an attempt to
make the engines lighter so the aircraft could carry a bigger bomb load.
Although there were fire suppression systems on board, pilots knew that if
they had an engine fire, it was a given they were going to lose a wing,
because with the wind of flight fanning the flames of a burning magnesium
engine case, the engie mount, aluminum skin and spars in the wings were
going to get hot enough to bend if not burn. Thus an engine would come off
the airplane and there would be wing failure and crash.
Though all this sounds terrible and the implication is bad for Vanagons, it
is still prudent to do what one can to fire protect the vehicle, and make
it possible to salvage as much as possible in the unfortunate event of a
fire.
I was told once about the difference between a recession and a
depression. A recession is when your neighbor is out of work. A
depression is when you are out of work. Statistically, not a lot of
vehicles burn, but when it's your's, that's 100% to many.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Stan Wilder wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Steel engine covers will not stop the fire from going into the interior
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">of
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">your Vanagon.
There are still magnesium parts on VWs. Like the fan shroud, tranny
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">cases.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Stan Wilder
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.engineceramics.com">www.engineceramics.com</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
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