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Date:         Sun, 8 Aug 2004 16:26:25 -0700
Reply-To:     Mike Miller <mwmiller@CWNET.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mike Miller <mwmiller@CWNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Noisy lifters, rockers, at startup, etc (long)
Comments: To: jbrush@AROS.NET
In-Reply-To:  <200408082316.i78NGjUx092369@deimos.aros.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I think you're supposed to run the MMO for a little bit then drain it and put in fresh oil and filter. Don't think you're supposed to run it long with MMO in there.

Stan will know for sure.

Mike

On 8/8/04 2:42 PM, "Anonymous Digest" <jbrush@AROS.NET> wrote:

> Hi all, > > I bought this up on the air cooled list, so if Wil, and others who offered to > help recall it, I don't want you to think I am second guessing, or doubting > your > expertise. I appreciate the advice, and am just searching for more opinions > and > theories. > > My air cooled, at 200K, is starting up with clacking lifters/rocker arms way > too > often. Circumstances only allow me to drive it three or four days each month, > so > for much of this year, it sits for at least several weeks between starts. In > case anyone is curious, its an insurance issue, as I cannot afford to insure > it > right now, but they do allow me to drive it four days a months, for a tiny > flat > fee, but that means I cannot just drive it around the neighborhood every few > days to keep it running happy, so I get one or two weekends out of it, if I > plan > accordingly :-) > > I take a long trip, it runs great, and I sure feel badly about having to let > it > sit for so long before I can drive it. I do so enjoy it. :-) It sits for about > two an a half weeks, and when I finally start it up , I get more than just > one > lifter/rocker arm tapping, there are a mess of em "not happy" and it takes > nearly twenty minutes of cruising easily through the neighborhoods to quiet it > down. Not long ago, before I took it out to try and silence it, I put in about > half a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, as that has helped on rare occasions > before. > Did it help? Certainly not within five or ten minutes of idling. Its still in > the crankcase, and I still have the issue when I start it up, so I am not sure > it did much good. > > When it is so gosh-awful- noisy, it still runs just great, although it sounds > like a V10 diesel, and its a bit embarassing to get those looks from folks as > I > go by, or sit at a light. > > As an aside, it does blow a lot of oil on trips, and so I am quite certain > that > I always have pretty fresh oil in the crankcase, as it gets a full change on a > 1200 mile trip, and I ditch it, and the filter, after every adventure. I feel > certain that it has never suffered from dirty oil over its lifetime, and that > what is in there now is pretty fresh oil. Its been changed more than four > times > this year so far, and the problem remains. > > I have taken to starting it up and letting it run for about ten or fifteen > minutes every other day, in hopes of avoiding such stress with weeks between > starts. After two days, it will start up noisy, quiet down in ~15-20 secs, > but > for a bit of a tap. I let it idle at about 1500RPM for ten minutes or so. By > that time, it is running as quiet, and as "happy sounding" as it ever has, the > oil temp is around 150 or 160 by then, in the summer heat. > > I have tried cranking the engine with the spark disconnected in order to get > pressure up before letting it start, but I guess there is just not enough oil > pressure at that slow speed to do much of any good. Used to help, but not > anymore. > > Given the cash, I would just buy a new motor. Till then, I would like to > solicit > ideas and opinions, especially from those who "suffer" from this, and who have > been inside the 2.0L aircooled motors. I am more of a V8 expert, so what I > know > about the internals of these beasts, I have learned from you folks. > > I switched from the FLAPS Bosche filters to the Mahles from our online vendors > a > few years ago, although I don't blame the filters. With regards to the filter > and the pressure valve on an air cooled engine, I fail to see the need for it, > as the filter sits vertical, and not tilted as on the water cooled motor, and > is > always full of oil, so I have no idea how such a pressure valve can have any > effect on this engine. I'd like to hear the technical, oil flow explanation > for > it, if it is really considered critical. That notwithstanding, I use the > better > ones anyway, but so far, I see no proof that they do any better regarding > this > problem. > > My biggest concern is the excessive wear and damage I am doing to the engine, > and I am soliciting thoughts as to what is the lesser of the evils. > > In my mind, the noise I am hearing is the clatter of the rocker arm being > slightly "loose" if you will, as the lifter pumps up. Its not much of a > clearance deviation, but I assume its enough to make the racket. I can't see > adjusting the lifters, as they do quiet down eventually, and the motor is as > smooth as that "baby's butt" we all relate to :-) Would an adjustment seem > necessary, or useful? > > Is that noise actually what I think it is, or is it a cam/lifter issue that is > stressing the cam lobes, and gonna fail one day if I let it continue? Its > loud, > but I am assuming its the rocker arm wacking the valve stem/spring, as well as > the pushrod. Yes or no? > > I use 20-50W exclusively, cannot afford to use synthetic as the engine has a > "blow by" problem and blows a lot of oil out the main seals and probably other > places. Plus, changing over in a motor this old seems like a bad idea. > > It would seem to me that a lighter weight oil would be called for, to pump up > the lifters faster, but I am just guessing about that. > > Since noise like this is caused by something stressing out, or being out of > adjustment, I assume I am going to hose something one day unless I find a > solution. Are there other components are taking the beating in this "dry > lifter > when it starts up" scenario? > > Is replacing the lifters a reasonable option, or will that cause undue wear on > the cam and create a different, albeit still fatal, problem? Could the problem > actually be somewhere else in the oil flow path, and is only manifesting > itself > in the lifter problem? > > If I end up doing nothing, I would like to know what the consensus is, as to > which is the lesser of the two destructive evils, starting it up every day, or > every other day, and idling it at ~1500RPM for a fifteen minutes, or letting > it > sit for three weeks, and then starting it up ,and driving it till the > hellacious > noise drops away? > > I know this is kind of long. Just wanted to get out the facts and avoid > confusion if I can. > > Thanks for any advice. I appreciate it. > > John > >


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