Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:37:01 -0400
Reply-To: "Carrington, Tom" <TCarrington@RELITECH.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Carrington, Tom" <TCarrington@RELITECH.COM>
Subject: Re: The Health Of The Gerry & The List
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the posting. I need to let everyone know that there have been
several donations to the list since 2001, I just haven't updated the page.
I'd guess that it is on the scale of about another $100. I'll update the
page to reflect this after the final exam for my summer class on Monday.
Thanks,
TomC
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Nadig
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: 8/11/04 10:02 PM
Subject: The Health Of The Gerry & The List
Having lived in both the Vanagon world, the rest of the water-cooled VW
world, and the Porsche world, I can tell you that there are huge, huge,
differences in the people that are members of each of these communities.
I have had memberships in both Rennlist and PCA (Porsche Club Of
America)
for several years now. I joined Rennlist so that I could advertise. For
me,
it has paid for itself. In addition to me (a very, very small fish in a
big
ocean of Porsche vendors), there are all sorts of folks that want to
sell
all sorts of things to Porsche owners.
Vanagons are polar opposites. The number of running Vanagons on the
roads in
North America is much smaller than the number of Porsches here in the
U.S.
and Canada. On top of that, except for some ratty 944s and 914s, most of
the
Porsches on the road are in good condition and their owners care about
them.
In addition, most of their owners can afford to spend a substantial
amount
of money on their toys.
This just isn't the case with Vanagons. We all know that the numbers of
Vanagons on the roads in North America are dwindling. On top of that,
take a
look at every Vanagon you see as you drive down the street. Does the
driver
look like a serious, dedicated, hard-core Vanagon owner like someone on
this
list, or were they just fortunate enough to find a cheap (relative term
here) utilitarian source of transportation?
There aren't enough folks in the hard-core Vanagon community to pay $18
per
year for a subscription to a list with amount of content we have. There
aren't enough vendors to go after us either. Even if there were, their
return on their advertising dollar would be low because, 1) there aren't
very many of us, and 2) Vanagon owners, as a group (and I am a proud
Vanagon
owner), are notoriously cheap.
Good idea. Poor model. Keep the list as it is until the system breaks
and
needs some fixing.
By the way, most of you probably didn't know this. On vanagon.com there
is a
convenient link that gives you instructions on how you can make a
monetary
contribution to Gerry and the Vanagon list. There is also (what appears
to
be) a full accounting of all money that has been contributed and how it
has
been spent. Please see this link:
http://gerry.vanagon.com/info/donations.html
Sadly, in 2001 only 43 donations were made! That is alarming. At any
rate,
you can make a donation via snail mail or PayPal. I must admit that I
have
never made a contribution. I am going to correct that right now.
Cheers,
Bruce
motorbruce
motorbruce@hotmail.com
>From: Craig Oda <craigoda@GMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Craig Oda <craigoda@GMAIL.COM>
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: It's been almost 5 years that Gerry and I have lived
> together...
>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:24:27 -0700
>
>I believe that the Porsche communty has something similar with
>Rennlist. The key here is that there are free mailing lists and other
>services in addition to an optional membership fee that comes with
>expanded services. Rennlist costs $18 per year for the expanded
>services.
>http://www.rennlist.org/
>
>I believe that the Porsche community has a larger critical mass to
>support this type of project.
>
>Another online community that is stable is Brainstorms, run by Howard
>Rheingold. Their model is based purely on donations. Though, I
>believe that the server is hosted for free.
>
>It occurred to me that a VW parts supplier such as Bus Depot,
>Vanagain, VolksCafe, vanagonparts.com, may have some type of leased
>line or rack. They might not. But, it is a possibility. If Tom has
>to cut his DSL line due to financial and time reasons, we might be
>able to beg space for the server from some Vanagon-friendly vendor in
>exchange for an advertising tagline.
>
>Just some ideas for discussion from a guy that benefits from the list.
>
>-- Craig
>
>On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:29:24 -0700, Robert Fisher <refisher@mchsi.com>
>wrote:
> > I'd be willing to pay a reasonable subscription/membership fee; it'd
be
>a
> > small price/investment for the benefit, as others have noted. It
might
>also
> > provide for other features, such as a chat room or whatever may be
>desired
> > (or not). : )
> > I have seen web sites that operate off of donations, 'tho that seems
a
>bit
> > precarious.
> > My wife is a member of a message board site that seems to do quite
well
> > charging $15.00 per year; I don't know how many members they
actually
>have,
> > however or/vs. how many people are actively on this list, but it
might
>be
> > worth some discussion.
> >
> > Cya,
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael S. Nichols" <msnichols@MINDSPRING.COM>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: It's been almost 5 years that Gerry and I have lived
> > together...
> >
> > > Hello fellow listers,
> > >
> > > I want to begin by thanking all those IT savvy folks that have
made
>this
> > > list possible. This is something I could never do, even though I
can,
> > > thanks to the list, keep my 2 1981 air cooled Vanagons up and
running
> > with
> > > little if any repair shop help. I do wonder though about all the
> > commercial
> > > vendors who benefit financially from this list. Hey,free
advertising
>is
> > > great--- that's the American way. But it is also the American way
>that no
> > > one rides for free. For example, I sell about $100.00 worth of
used
> > Vanagon
> > > spare parts on this list a year. I should pay something, I would
>think,
> > for
> > > the benefit of being able to do this. How much, perhaps, and how?
> > >
> > > The large commercial and "hobby" parts sellers, what might they
> > contribute?
> > > Bus Depot is a successful concern, not just a mom and pop company.
>Chris
> > at
> > > JordanWv, well, he advertises lots of parts, but only for a
hobby.
> > > VolksCafe, Van-again, both for-profit concerns. Stan W. in
Dallas,
>Texas,
> > > did I miss anyone?
> > >
> > > The reality is that folks like me get a ride for free based on
someone
> > else
> > > doing all the work, volunteering their time and money to make
this
>list
> > > what it is. How can we make this arrangement work better? Should
the
>big
> > > vendors run the list and pay the cost? Should the big vendors be
>asked to
> > > contribute financially to sponsor someone else running the list?
The
> > large
> > > vendors pay other folks for advertising, and I keep seeing lots of
> > expensive
> > > Westy "newly arrived" items being plugged on the list......
> > > My question to the list: Thoughts on this issue?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Mike Nichols, Atlanta GA 30306
> >
| 
