Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:21:29 -0700
Reply-To: laurasdog@WEIRDSTUFFWEMAKE.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Steve Delanty <laurasdog@WEIRDSTUFFWEMAKE.COM>
Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
In-Reply-To: <000a01c4859b$083606c0$49d2ea42@ttower17def>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7951117D;
Is it april fools day, or what?
That was one of the most pathetically idiotic things I've ever read......
Maybe when you're in the bears home, you should try and show a little
intelligence and respect for nature. People who do that never seem to
have any trouble with bears. It's always the lazy fools who who leave food
laying around in sight, or insist on jerking around with the bears instead
of leaving them alone who have trouble. It's A-holes like that who are the
REASON for all the rules and regulations...
Some moron lets his 12 year old kid play Rambo with the bears, and
the next thing, the kid is being airlifted to some hospital to see if they
can sew the kids head back on. The peckerhead parents sue the
park service for letting "those dangerous" bears "molest" their kid, and
a bunch of lawyers make a lot of money. So now the park service has
to turn to serious measures to protect their asses, and assess huge
fines for leaving food in sight, or impound peoples cars to try and force
them into showing the same common sense that comes naturally to most.
It's really a matter of a very few people screwing it up for the rest, and
from your post it sounds like you are one of that type...
Show a little respect, or stay out out of the parks and forests...
Oh yea, when I was in Mineral King last year, (with our Westy) we saw
a couple bears on a day hike. Later in the evening, I was in a trailhead
parking lot, and a ranger came through and looked in the windows of
all the cars in the lot (including the Westy). He wrote 2 tickets in
that lot for people leaving fast food wrappers in plain sight on the seat
of their cars. $50 first offense...
Hey, they were warned with many signs on the way in. but were
obviously too lazy or stupid to be able to comply. I hope the second
offense is $5000...
Steve-
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At 08:17 PM 8/18/2004, Doug in Calif wrote:
>Robert,
>Now how did I know you would be the one to "take the bait"? <grin>
>
>I just want those darn bears to feel as unwelcome in the campground and
>p-king lots as a screaming liberal at a Republican convention. <2nd grin>
>
>Just imagine the enthusiasm from your 12yr old son and his buddies on the
>camping trip knowing they can bring their paint ball guns loaded with pepper
>balls and night vision goggles and play open season commando with any bears
>that step foot in the campground or parking lots looking for food! I would
>have loved doing that at 12, heck, even now at 44.
>
>Next time you see a Ranger shoot a bear in the rump with a rubber bullet
>(which is standard procedure to save bears) just remind yourself that only
>people with "authority" should ever be allowed to do such a thing. We are
>just helpless, uncertified, untrained, unread, idiots, who don't know how to
>do anything for ourselves.We would probably shoot our eye out. Surely not
>chase away a bear with some real authority. We must always rely on
>"professionally trained others" to do everything for us, even if they are
>nowhere around. That way we are also never have to take any responsibility
>for anything we do or don't do, because everybody knows we always rely on
>others who know exactly what to do in their trained field.
>
>Anybody who thinks they know better is a just a drunk red neck, right?
>wrong.
>
>What is this? that if we take a firmer stance and empower the public to be
>more pro-active with bears it somehow means we are all a bunch of "slobs"?
>Geez I was just thinking of being able to leave food in my westy fridge
>without feeling like my door is going to be torn off or my vehicle impounded
>and suddenly I am a drunk red neck shooting kids with bean bags and leaving
>garbage everywhere spoiling national parks. yeah right.
>
>The truth is, when I went to the website and looked at the stats on bears
>and incidents, the numbers are up!. The bears are getting smarter. They are
>smart enough to know who has the shot gun with the thumper rounds and its
>not the dumb helpless campers, and the bears know that. You should see them
>run like hell when they see the rangers in Yellowstone. They know who has
>the stuff.
>
>Yeah, REI has bear spray, let us use thumpers or pepper balls in paint guns,
>teach the bears to stay away from all humans and anything to do with humans,
>give them a bad bad (non lethal) experience, let it rain on them in
>campgrounds, remember its not a poodle, they need a big SWAT to get the
>message, Ask the folks who live around them they know. If the park service
>could get the incidents down to zero they would, the problem is most
>"people" and the "general public" has been so "dumbed down" nowadays its
>lucky they can still drive a car and tie their shoes. The only folks who
>know how to take responsibility, fix anything, use a power tool, kill a
>meal, stand up to hostile bikers, ............yup its mostly the red
>necks. (sorry)
>
>Yes guns in cockpits, yes empower the people, some of us are still not
>helpless. we can carry anti freeze and propane safely,
>
> Kill your own meat once in a while instead of having somebody else do it
>for you. You will gain a new perspective of life and death.
>
>Let those who want somebody else to do everything for them stay at home.
>
>Hey its just one mans opinion, cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen.
>
>Doug
>
>87 syncro westy conversion
>89 blue star wolfy
>
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>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert Fisher" <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:40 PM
>Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
>
>
> > Now there's a great idea- let's all go into the Nat'l parks and declare
>war
> > on the bears for obeying their instincts and being bears.
> > We'll all enjoy our trips into the hinterlands so much better when we can
>be
> > the same kinds of slobs out in the woods that we are at home, with our
>open
> > cans of beer and bags of chips laying about, smears of grease and crumbs
>on
> > our clothes, safe from the natural inhabitants because every single bear
>in
> > the woods has had a thoroughly effective pavlovian experience at the hand
>of
> > the hordes of rednecks that were imported to whip them into shape, just
>for
> > the sport of it.
> > 'Course the experience won't be as, well, natural as it once was, what
>with
> > all the trailers and garbage dumps scattered thru the parks from where the
> > rednecks won't want to leave 'the beauty of nature' after they've done
>such
> > a good job of whipping it into shape... but that's ok, they'll do a
> > wonderful job of driving out those evil Gestapo Park Rangers while their
>at
> > it- how dare they try to preserve a more-or-less natural habitat at the
> > expense of our convenience?
> > Just too bad you won't be able to take your kids into the woods for fear
> > they'll be mistaken for a bear cub by a drunken redneck and have their
> > little heads knocked off by all the bean bags and 'thumper' rounds flying
> > around- but hey, that's part of the price you pay, gotta teach them bears
> > young, y'know.
> >
> > Yup, no doubt about it, being 'nice and considerate', i.e. preparation,
> > cleanliness and education are for the pantywaists- much better to just do
> > what we 'feel' and teach them damn bears a lesson.
> >
> > Y'know, if you really feel that way, why don't you do your camping in a
> > trailer park or a downtown street and leave the parks and forests for the
> > rest of us pantywaists.
> >
> > Unbelievable.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug in Calif" <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 5:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
> >
> >
> > > I find this thread pretty interesting, I did go to the some of the links
> > > provided and its amazing to see now that you can have your "vehicle
> > > impounded" for committing "such a crime". The bear lockers sound like
> > good
> > > ideas but the problem some have already stated with them is that they
>are
> > > not big enough, not enough of them, they are not refrigerated, (what am
>I
> > > supposed to do with the stuff in my propane fridge with no ice?) Now I
> > have
> > > to bring an ice chest and ice too? You better not forget the air
> > freshener
> > > hangin from your mirror. "oops just lost your rig and its impound time".
> > > This is BS in my opinion. What about the stove in your rig? They say
>your
> > > child seat should be removed because it has "residual food" on it. what
> > > about the stove. how about the fabric in the tent from my last egg
> > breakfast
> > > in the westy?
> > >
> > > I feel there should be more aggressive measures taken to make this a
>very
> > > bad experience for the bears. Let the campers shoot them with bean bags
> > and
> > > their own 12ga and pepper spray them big time. We need some good ole red
> > > neck hunters that enjoy giving them bears a shot in the rump, just for
>the
> > > sport of it. As usual, our pantywaist society has made another bad
> > situation
> > > worse by "being nice and considerate".
> > >
> > > I did not see anything on the sites about taking your own initiative and
> > > using bear spray or a "thumper" round which I carry in my 12 ga.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mark Tuovinen" <mst@AK.NET>
> > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:10 PM
> > > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Addendum re: "Best plan, assuming there are trees around (not too many
> > > bears on the
> > > > desert) is to throw a rope over a limb and haul your food
> > bag
> > > up into
> > > > the air out of reach. This is common practice in back
> > country
> > > camping."
> > > >
> > > > Whether or not there are trees around there should be a minimum of
> > several
> > > hundred feet between your campsite and where you cook and/or store food,
> > > toiletries, etc.
> > > >
> > > > " If you are going to keep food in a tent you are
>sleeping
> > > in, keep a
> > > > good sharp knife at your side so you can cut an exit
>door
> > > in the tent
> > > > wall opposite the entrance door the bears claws have
> > cut."
> > > >
> > > > If you choose to keep food, toiletries, etc, in you tent then this is
> > good
> > > advice. Or you can just wait and the bear will be more then happy to
>make
> > a
> > > second opening for you. We plan ahead and already have a tent with two
> > door
> > > openings.
> > > >
> > > > Mark in AK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: don spence <dspence@OANET.COM>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:48 pm
> > > > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
> > > >
> > > > > If you are going to keep food in a tent you are sleeping in, keep a
> > > > > good sharp knife at your side so you can cut an exit door in the
>tent
> > > > > wall opposite the entrance door the bears claws have cut.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best plan, assuming there are trees around (not too many bears on
>the
> > > > > desert) is to throw a rope over a limb and haul your food bag up
>into
> > > > > the air out of reach. This is common practice in back country
>camping.
> > > > >
> > > > > Up on the roof is better than in a westy. Food and people space
>don't
> > > > > mix in bear country.
> > > > >
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