Date:         Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:05:17 -0700
Reply-To:     Leon <korkwood@WSHOST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Leon <korkwood@WSHOST.NET>
Subject:      Re: bears burgling for food?
In-Reply-To:  <6.1.2.0.0.20040819081645.02a345f0@mail.gct21.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15

When i hear about Mineral King it makes me want to go there...
Did you do any backpacking there?
Place is paradise
Btw i know it's way off topic but if any of listees go to Sierras
regularly i would like to hear about your experience, trips etc
Pmail
Leon
85 Subwagen

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:21:29 -0700, Steve Delanty
<laurasdog@WEIRDSTUFFWEMAKE.COM> wrote:

> Is it april fools day, or what?
>
> That was one of the most pathetically idiotic things I've ever read......
>
> Maybe when you're in the bears home, you should try and show a little
> intelligence and respect for nature. People who do that never seem to
> have any trouble with bears. It's always the lazy fools who who leave
> food
> laying around in sight, or insist on jerking around with the bears
> instead
> of leaving them alone who have trouble. It's A-holes like that who are
> the
> REASON for all the rules and regulations...
>
> Some moron lets his 12 year old kid play Rambo with the bears, and
> the next thing, the kid is being airlifted to some hospital to see if
> they
> can sew the kids head back on. The peckerhead parents sue the
> park service for letting "those dangerous" bears "molest" their kid, and
> a bunch of lawyers make a lot of money. So now the park service has
> to turn to serious measures to protect their asses, and assess huge
> fines for leaving food in sight, or impound peoples cars to try and force
> them into showing the same common sense that comes naturally to most.
>
> It's really a matter of a very few people screwing it up for the rest,
> and
> from your post it sounds like you are one of that type...
>
> Show a little respect, or stay out out of the parks and forests...
>
>
> Oh yea, when I was in Mineral King last year, (with our Westy) we saw
> a couple bears on a day hike. Later in the evening, I was in a trailhead
> parking lot, and a ranger came through and looked in the windows of
> all the cars in the lot (including the Westy). He wrote 2 tickets in
> that lot for people leaving fast food wrappers in plain sight on the seat
> of their cars. $50 first offense...
> Hey, they were warned with many signs on the way in. but were
> obviously too lazy or stupid to be able to comply. I hope the second
> offense is $5000...
>
> Steve-
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> At 08:17 PM 8/18/2004, Doug in Calif wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>> Now how did I know you would be the one to "take the bait"?  <grin>
>>
>> I just want those darn bears to feel as unwelcome in the campground and
>> p-king lots as a screaming liberal at a Republican convention. <2nd
>> grin>
>>
>> Just imagine the enthusiasm from your 12yr old son and his buddies on
>> the
>> camping trip knowing they can bring their paint ball guns loaded with
>> pepper
>> balls and night vision goggles and play open season commando with any
>> bears
>> that step foot in the campground or  parking lots looking for food!  I
>> would
>> have loved doing that at 12, heck, even now at 44.
>>
>> Next time you see a Ranger shoot a bear in the rump with a rubber bullet
>> (which is standard procedure to save bears) just remind yourself that
>> only
>> people with "authority" should ever be allowed to do such a thing. We
>> are
>> just helpless, uncertified, untrained, unread, idiots, who don't know
>> how to
>> do anything for ourselves.We would probably shoot our eye out. Surely
>> not
>> chase away a bear with some real authority.  We must always rely on
>> "professionally trained others" to do everything for us, even if they
>> are
>> nowhere around.   That way we are also never have to take any
>> responsibility
>> for anything we do or don't do, because everybody knows we always rely
>> on
>> others who know exactly what to do in their trained field.
>>
>> Anybody who thinks they know better is a just a drunk red neck, right?
>> wrong.
>>
>> What is this? that if we take a firmer stance and empower the public to
>> be
>> more pro-active with bears it somehow means we are all a bunch of
>> "slobs"?
>> Geez I was just thinking of being able to leave food in my westy fridge
>> without feeling like my door is going to be torn off or my vehicle
>> impounded
>> and suddenly I am a drunk red neck shooting kids with bean bags and
>> leaving
>> garbage everywhere spoiling national parks. yeah right.
>>
>> The truth is, when I went to the website and looked at the stats on
>> bears
>> and incidents, the numbers are up!. The bears are getting smarter. They
>> are
>> smart enough to know who has the shot gun with the thumper rounds and
>> its
>> not the dumb helpless campers, and the bears know that. You should see
>> them
>> run like hell when they see the rangers in Yellowstone.  They know who
>> has
>> the stuff.
>>
>> Yeah, REI has bear spray, let us use thumpers or pepper balls in paint
>> guns,
>> teach the bears to stay away from all humans and anything to do with
>> humans,
>> give them a bad bad (non lethal) experience, let it rain on them in
>> campgrounds, remember its not a poodle, they need a big SWAT to get the
>> message, Ask the folks who live around them they know.  If the park
>> service
>> could get the incidents down to zero they would, the problem is most
>> "people" and the "general public" has been so "dumbed down" nowadays its
>> lucky they can still drive a car and tie their shoes. The only folks who
>> know how to take responsibility, fix anything, use a power tool, kill a
>> meal, stand up to hostile bikers,   ............yup its mostly the red
>> necks.  (sorry)
>>
>> Yes guns in cockpits, yes empower the people, some of us are still  not
>> helpless. we can carry anti freeze and propane safely,
>>
>>  Kill your own meat once in a while instead of having somebody else do
>> it
>> for you. You will gain a new perspective of life and death.
>>
>> Let those who want somebody else to do everything for them stay at home.
>>
>> Hey its just one mans opinion, cant take the heat stay out of the
>> kitchen.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> 87 syncro westy conversion
>> 89 blue star wolfy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robert Fisher" <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
>>
>>
>> > Now there's a great idea- let's all go into the Nat'l parks and
>> declare
>> war
>> > on the bears for obeying their instincts and being bears.
>> > We'll all enjoy our trips into the hinterlands so much better when we
>> can
>> be
>> > the same kinds of slobs out in the woods that we are at home, with our
>> open
>> > cans of beer and bags of chips laying about, smears of grease and
>> crumbs
>> on
>> > our clothes, safe from the natural inhabitants because every single
>> bear
>> in
>> > the woods has had a thoroughly effective pavlovian experience at the
>> hand
>> of
>> > the hordes of rednecks that were imported to whip them into shape,
>> just
>> for
>> > the sport of it.
>> > 'Course the experience won't be as, well, natural as it once was, what
>> with
>> > all the trailers and garbage dumps scattered thru the parks from
>> where the
>> > rednecks won't want to leave 'the beauty of nature' after they've done
>> such
>> > a good job of whipping it into shape... but that's ok, they'll do a
>> > wonderful job of driving out those evil Gestapo Park Rangers while
>> their
>> at
>> > it- how dare they try to preserve a more-or-less natural habitat at
>> the
>> > expense of our convenience?
>> > Just too bad you won't be able to take your kids into the woods for
>> fear
>> > they'll be mistaken for a bear cub by a drunken redneck and have their
>> > little heads knocked off by all the bean bags and 'thumper' rounds
>> flying
>> > around- but hey, that's part of the price you pay, gotta teach them
>> bears
>> > young, y'know.
>> >
>> > Yup, no doubt about it, being 'nice and considerate', i.e.
>> preparation,
>> > cleanliness and education are for the pantywaists- much better to
>> just do
>> > what we 'feel' and teach them damn bears a lesson.
>> >
>> > Y'know, if you really feel that way, why don't you do your camping in
>> a
>> > trailer park or a downtown street and leave the parks and forests for
>> the
>> > rest of us pantywaists.
>> >
>> > Unbelievable.
>> >
>> > Robert
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Doug in Calif" <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
>> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 5:51 PM
>> > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
>> >
>> >
>> > > I find this thread pretty interesting, I did go to the some of the
>> links
>> > > provided and its amazing to see now that you can have your "vehicle
>> > > impounded" for committing "such a crime".  The bear lockers sound
>> like
>> > good
>> > > ideas but the problem some have already stated with them is that
>> they
>> are
>> > > not big enough, not enough of them, they are not refrigerated,
>> (what am
>> I
>> > > supposed to do with the stuff in my propane fridge with no ice?)
>> Now I
>> > have
>> > > to bring an ice chest and ice too?  You better not forget the air
>> > freshener
>> > > hangin from your mirror. "oops just lost your rig and its impound
>> time".
>> > > This is BS in my opinion. What about the stove in your rig?  They
>> say
>> your
>> > > child seat should be removed because it has "residual food" on it.
>> what
>> > > about the stove. how about the fabric in the tent from my last egg
>> > breakfast
>> > > in the westy?
>> > >
>> > > I feel there should be more aggressive measures taken to make this a
>> very
>> > > bad experience for the bears. Let the campers shoot them with bean
>> bags
>> > and
>> > > their own 12ga and pepper spray them big time. We need some good
>> ole red
>> > > neck hunters that enjoy giving them bears a shot in the rump, just
>> for
>> the
>> > > sport of it. As usual, our pantywaist society has made another bad
>> > situation
>> > > worse by "being nice and considerate".
>> > >
>> > > I did not see anything on the sites about taking your own
>> initiative and
>> > > using bear spray or a "thumper" round which I carry in my 12 ga.
>> > >
>> > > Doug
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Mark Tuovinen" <mst@AK.NET>
>> > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:10 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Addendum re: "Best plan, assuming there are trees around (not too
>> many
>> > > bears on the
>> > > >              desert) is to throw a rope over a limb and haul your
>> food
>> > bag
>> > > up into
>> > > >              the air out of reach. This is common practice in back
>> > country
>> > > camping."
>> > > >
>> > > > Whether or not there are trees around there should be a minimum of
>> > several
>> > > hundred feet between your campsite and where you cook and/or store
>> food,
>> > > toiletries, etc.
>> > > >
>> > > >              " If you are going to keep food in a tent you are
>> sleeping
>> > > in, keep a
>> > > >                good sharp knife at your side so you can cut an
>> exit
>> door
>> > > in the tent
>> > > >                wall opposite the entrance door  the bears claws
>> have
>> > cut."
>> > > >
>> > > > If you choose to keep food, toiletries, etc, in you tent then
>> this is
>> > good
>> > > advice. Or you can just wait and the bear will be more then happy to
>> make
>> > a
>> > > second opening for you. We plan ahead and already have a tent with
>> two
>> > door
>> > > openings.
>> > > >
>> > > > Mark in AK
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: don spence <dspence@OANET.COM>
>> > > > Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:48 pm
>> > > > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
>> > > >
>> > > > > If you are going to keep food in a tent you are sleeping in,
>> keep a
>> > > > > good sharp knife at your side so you can cut an exit door in the
>> tent
>> > > > > wall opposite the entrance door  the bears claws have cut.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Best plan, assuming there are trees around (not too many bears
>> on
>> the
>> > > > > desert) is to throw a rope over a limb and haul your food bag up
>> into
>> > > > > the air out of reach. This is common practice in back country
>> camping.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Up on the roof is better than in a westy. Food and people space
>> don't
>> > > > > mix in bear country.
>> > > > >



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