Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:02:39 -0700
Reply-To: Bill Witz <pbwitz@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Bill Witz <pbwitz@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Emissions Ethics
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 02:34 PM 8/28/04 -0400, you wrote:
>There are 21 messages totalling 1128 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. Replaced that heater valve today! (5)
> 2. emission ethics
> 3. Failed Emissions Check (2)
> 4. Transmission Question
> 5. Brown Westy at Hotel Roanoke
> 6. step to upper bunk - new version (4)
> 7. Beetle TDI test drive (almost no vanagon content)
> 8. 1.9L engine parts for sale
> 9. Westy fridge clinic tomorrow, SoCal
> 10. LVCAudi gas: Passat feedback
> 11. Stock Refrigerator Fan Available
> 12. Upper bunk step
> 13. Westy clinic Today and maybe tomorrow, SoCal
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:46:06 -0500
>From: Robert Cardo <rrecardo@WEBTV.NET>
>Subject: Re: Replaced that heater valve today!
>
>Larry,
>
>With your finger.
>You flick it off in the summer.
>You flick it on in the winter.
>Take the cover off the front of your heater in front of your shift
>lever.
>Look at the heater hose.
>Imagine a brass ball valve spliced in that horizontal hose.
>I find this a much easier resolve to the cheap plastic inaccessible unit
>under the Van.
>It is an easy installation.
>It is an easy task to accomplish to remove the unwanted heat in the cab
>of the Van during the summer, and to reverse the procedure in the
>winter.
>I personally found the constant adjusting of the clip and slipping cable
>to be a pain to deal with.
>I found the kit on E-Bay some time ago, and the placement of the brass,
>non leaking shut off valve to take me 10 minutes.
>I am not crawling under the Van to deal with the poorly engineered stock
>valve.
>It's now at my fingertips.
>The gentleman I purchased this conversion kit from is a bit gregarious,
>and wild, but has many easy solutions to various Vanagon problems.
>P-Mail me and I'll send you his E-Mail address.
>
>RC
>
>
>E-mail message
>
>Subject: Re: Replaced that heater valve today!
>How do you control it?
>Do you have any pictures?
>Larry A.
>
>Robert Cardo wrote:
>Jim,
>Why not take another simpler route to no heat in the front compartment?
>I added a brass ball valve behind the heater cover. I changed the
>plastic heater valve, and forever was adjusting the cable clip which
>seems to be the culprit more times than one can count of the leaking
>valve problem.
>I added the brass absolute, positive shut off valve and no heat at my
>feet, ever.
>It's much simpler to add this add on valve than to change, adjust,
>crawl, and groap for the poorly designed Vanagon heater valve. I found
>this to be an excellent option.
>RC
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:39:46 -0400
>From: Scott Norville <kr2no@EARTHLINK.NET>
>Subject: Re: emission ethics
>
>Similarly, we should offer no guidance if someone on the list were posting
>queries or instructions for shooting cops while stealth camping in a Walmart
>parking lot.
>This is an issue that has more ramifications than just flauting unfair laws.
>On an legal level you are beraking laws if you make "temporary" changes to
>pass emissions; on an ethical level you are not being honest with yourself
>or your fellow humans; on a moral level you are contributing to the more
>rapid decline in the habitability of this planet; and on a practical level
>you are contributing to the more rapid decline of your beloved van.
>As others have said, not passing emissions (or any part of the safety
>inspection) is usually a sign that something is wrong with the van (or the
>testing equipment), not a sign of intrusive government. Yes, the things that
>go wrong without you knowing it are often expensive, annoying and
>aggravating to fix, but better now than when you drop a valve from the lean
>mix or get stranded in the mountains with a clogged cat.
>If you want to live where there is less "intrusion" by government you have a
>wide sheaf of choices. Look at some of the places Joy works: the lovely
>clear air of Cairo, for instance. Or you could just move to the less urban
>areas of the US. Oh, you like living in the congested areas with lots of
>other people? Then you have to learn and play by the rules that have been
>developed to allow humans to live close together.
>Everything a rational human does is a compromise. Some of us choose to drive
>our buses from a preference for its utilitarian Teutonic style, capacity and
>endurance, but I doubt if many on this list drive theirs because it is the
>only vehicle they can afford--there are many cheaper vehicles to acquire and
>maintain, even many other VWs, within legal limits. Like Joy, I drive mine
>when I need two portable bedrooms with a kitchen and use something more
>efficient for other running around.
>
>So, I'll stop my rant here with a summation: we are members of a
>civilization, with the privileges and responsibilities that entail, or we
>are barbarians.
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:15:49 -0700, gary hradek <hradek@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> >Joy,
> > We need no ethical guidance on this list when it
> >comes to emission checks. If you really push this
> >issue you would not be on the vanagon list at all but
> >you would be on the low polluting eurovan list.
> >There are many reasons people choose to handle a
> >vanagon problem the way they do. We need to take
> >care not to judge them on this action. Two hundred
> >dollars may make the difference whether they get
> >enough to eat or not.
> > I for one would like to know if advancing the
> >engine or retarding the engine will decrease NOX?
> >I thought an engine runs hotter when it is retarded
> >and thus NOX would be higher? So what do you think?
> > regards, gary
> >Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:25:39 -0400
> >From: Joy Hecht <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU>
> >Subject: Re: Failed Emissions Check
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I know it's nice to pass your emissions test without
> >any expense, but
> >you
> >know, those emissions tests are there for a reason,
> >and it's not simply
> >to
> >hassle us. NOX emissions are harmful to all of us,
> >and to the natural
> >environment of which we are one small part - those
> >controls are there
> >to
> >protect people and animals and plants, not to make the
> >government feel
> >powerful.
> >
> >I think we all enjoy the opportunity that our vans
> >give us to travel
> >and
> >experience the environment. Is it really acceptable to
> >cheat on your
> >emissions tests to save yourself a couple of hundred
> >bucks, but pass on
> >the
> >harm you cause to the environment to hurt other
> >people?
> >
> >I'd be disappointed if most of the people in this
> >community felt it
> >was.
> >
> >
> >
> >Joy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:48:46 -0400
>From: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
>Subject: Re: Failed Emissions Check
>
>Bob,
>The reason your CO is high with the timing advanced is that as the
>timing is advanced, the throttle (or idle valve)has to close more to
>keep the idle speed down. This causes insufficient air and turbulence
>for a proper burn.
>
>Dennis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>Of Bob Stevens
>Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 3:07 AM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Failed Emissions Check
>
>for my nickel here, I'll move this a little toward vanagon fact, since I
>may
>have been the culprit who mentioned "tuning" my van specifically to pass
>emissions, then returning it to 10-12 deg. advanced at 1450 rpm, as
>TIICO
>suggests. Nobody bothered to ask any specific questions about just what
>"failed", to what degree and what numbers were recorded on the I/M
>Station
>Report.
> %OC/2 HC CO %
> Max measured Max meas Max meas
>idle: 916 12.1 4.0 220 96 1.20 0.27
>2500 rpm 13.5 2.4 220 33 1.20 0.08
>
>When I initially took the van in, at 10 deg adv., I was over the CO at
>1.23
>at idle before my "adjustment", grievous. I drive an '87 Van, an '89
>Buick
>about 10-12K annually. They both pass emissions annually, cost less than
>$100.00 to register between them, and I help keep 160 tons of CO, 13
>tons of
>HC, and 6 tons of NOx out of the atmosphere here in Salt Lake City,
>annually. Period.
>Speaking of environmentalism, anyone here interested in helping me and
>my
>friends in Moab get rid of a little damn: http://www.livingrivers.net/
>bye,
>bob
>1987 Westfalia Syncro TIICO
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Edwards" <bhs73@SPYMAC.COM>
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:25 PM
>Subject: Re: Failed Emissions Check
>
>
> > >>hassle us. NOX emissions are harmful to all of us, and to the
>natural
> > >>environment of which we are one small part - those controls are
>there to
> > >>protect people and animals and plants, not to make the government
>feel
> > >>powerful.
> >
> > I keep trying to ignore this POV, but it keeps popping up in quotes
>and
> > it is still Friday here. snip
> > It time to remove the rosey red glasses and realize that three
>vanagons
> > out of spec are nothing compared to millions of trucks and SUVs puking
>out
> > a higher percentage of crap into the air than cars and vans. There is
>not
> > any way that anyone can consider that to be fair, and equitable. The
> > environmentalists takes the easy road, and nit pick a few cars or
>vans,
> > and then tell us the government is working for us, to help us, and is
>only
> > doing it for our best interest and for the trees....... What a load of
> > balony...
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
Hi van folks. I think that information ought to be open and uncensored .
Some people out there may not be able to afford smog repairs on there
vehicles and they may need to fudge a little bit.Even the State of
California makes an allowance of low income persons in its smog
requirements . That being said I think we all ought to all think about the
kind of planet we want to leave behind to our heirs be they human,
animal,plant or material and what we could do to share this earth with
everyone.. I for one like to take my westy out to beautiful places with
real animals, water ,rock,and wood.I would not like to see our environment
any more degraded than it is . It would be good for us all if we could heal
it into a more sustainable state. I do not like SUV S much at all .
Sometimes when I look at them I can see my Westy in reflection . I
think it was Greg Brown that said :"lets face it these are station wagons
and we are all our folks.
Happy Trails
Bill Witz 84 WESTY TIICO
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