Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:45:55 -0400
Reply-To: ROBERT DONALDS <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: ROBERT DONALDS <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: emission ethics
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Fellow Earthlings
Have you ever flown into LAX down threw the yellow clouds ??
The lions share of car and truck pollution in this country is the diesel
engine and the high sulfur fuel the government allows them to burn, follow
the money. The laws are changing and the sulfur content is going to be
reduced over the next few years as has been done in Europe. My other point
is what is the cost on the environment of scraping a van. and the melting
down the scrap metal to make a new car compared to boosting the timing a
little to pass inspection.
Did you know that the seat and dash padding is considered a hasmat in the US
and hundreds of cars are halled to Canada where they shred them with
impunity
O Canada
I'm familiar with NOX its one of the main pollutants of propane powered
Zambonis. Indoor air quality in ice rinks is a hot topic with facility
managers. .Rinks get sued all the time when those darn hockey player get
sick. There was a time when the rinks did not think they had to change the
air in the building due to the fact that they had switched to propane fuel.
Now they test the air quality a couple of times a day. I had one manager
tell me that he opens the doors when the Zamboni is running and one day the
air quality readings went up instead of down turns out there was a diesel
truck running in the parking lot and the fumes where wafting in the open
door I took them a little while to figure out what the heck was going on.
if its not one thing its another
Zamboni now Makes electric machines at 70K each plus batteries and chargers
what do you mean ME ramble no way
running with scissors and throwing caution to the wind
I remain
Boston Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Norville" <kr2no@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: emission ethics
> Similarly, we should offer no guidance if someone on the list were posting
> queries or instructions for shooting cops while stealth camping in a
> Walmart
> parking lot.
> This is an issue that has more ramifications than just flauting unfair
> laws.
> On an legal level you are beraking laws if you make "temporary" changes to
> pass emissions; on an ethical level you are not being honest with yourself
> or your fellow humans; on a moral level you are contributing to the more
> rapid decline in the habitability of this planet; and on a practical level
> you are contributing to the more rapid decline of your beloved van.
> As others have said, not passing emissions (or any part of the safety
> inspection) is usually a sign that something is wrong with the van (or the
> testing equipment), not a sign of intrusive government. Yes, the things
> that
> go wrong without you knowing it are often expensive, annoying and
> aggravating to fix, but better now than when you drop a valve from the
> lean
> mix or get stranded in the mountains with a clogged cat.
> If you want to live where there is less "intrusion" by government you have
> a
> wide sheaf of choices. Look at some of the places Joy works: the lovely
> clear air of Cairo, for instance. Or you could just move to the less urban
> areas of the US. Oh, you like living in the congested areas with lots of
> other people? Then you have to learn and play by the rules that have been
> developed to allow humans to live close together.
> Everything a rational human does is a compromise. Some of us choose to
> drive
> our buses from a preference for its utilitarian Teutonic style, capacity
> and
> endurance, but I doubt if many on this list drive theirs because it is the
> only vehicle they can afford--there are many cheaper vehicles to acquire
> and
> maintain, even many other VWs, within legal limits. Like Joy, I drive mine
> when I need two portable bedrooms with a kitchen and use something more
> efficient for other running around.
>
> So, I'll stop my rant here with a summation: we are members of a
> civilization, with the privileges and responsibilities that entail, or we
> are barbarians.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:15:49 -0700, gary hradek <hradek@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>>Joy,
>> We need no ethical guidance on this list when it
>>comes to emission checks. If you really push this
>>issue you would not be on the vanagon list at all but
>>you would be on the low polluting eurovan list.
>>There are many reasons people choose to handle a
>>vanagon problem the way they do. We need to take
>>care not to judge them on this action. Two hundred
>>dollars may make the difference whether they get
>>enough to eat or not.
>> I for one would like to know if advancing the
>>engine or retarding the engine will decrease NOX?
>>I thought an engine runs hotter when it is retarded
>>and thus NOX would be higher? So what do you think?
>> regards, gary
>>Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:25:39 -0400
>>From: Joy Hecht <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU>
>>Subject: Re: Failed Emissions Check
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I know it's nice to pass your emissions test without
>>any expense, but
>>you
>>know, those emissions tests are there for a reason,
>>and it's not simply
>>to
>>hassle us. NOX emissions are harmful to all of us,
>>and to the natural
>>environment of which we are one small part - those
>>controls are there
>>to
>>protect people and animals and plants, not to make the
>>government feel
>>powerful.
>>
>>I think we all enjoy the opportunity that our vans
>>give us to travel
>>and
>>experience the environment. Is it really acceptable to
>>cheat on your
>>emissions tests to save yourself a couple of hundred
>>bucks, but pass on
>>the
>>harm you cause to the environment to hurt other
>>people?
>>
>>I'd be disappointed if most of the people in this
>>community felt it
>>was.
>>
>>
>>
>>Joy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________
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