Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:15:24 -0400
Reply-To: Kevin <antelopewesty@ADELPHIA.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Kevin <antelopewesty@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Re: Beetle TDI test drive (almost no vanagon content)
In-Reply-To: <20040827032956.32824.qmail@web11204.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
This is pretty strange as Vermont does not even have tail pipe testing they
just check for codes on OBD2 vechicles during the yearly safety check.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Michael Rule
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:30 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Beetle TDI test drive (almost no vanagon content)
He may have meant New Vehicles, but I am not certain... I don't remember the
specifics of the law at the moment, but I think NY is sim to MA... and used
car regs are diff than new purchases... this info I archived from a list
serve in 2002 or '03; might help explain
-----------------------------------------
http://www.greendieseltechnology.com/news170.html
For diesel enthusiasts, an immediate barrier is that California and four
Eastern states have adopted emissions standards that have pollution
requirements that are tougher than the federal government's. And next year,
California will stiffen its rules, further reducing permissible amounts of
all types of tailpipe emissions.
As a result, Volkswagen now says it won't offer diesels in California, New
York, Massachusetts, Connecticut or Vermont in the 2004 and '05 model years.
And Mercedes-Benz is unsure whether it will be able to sell its diesel
E-Class sedan in those five states next year.
"We have the same standard for diesel as gasoline, and there will be no
compromise" to make it easier for diesels to be sold in California, said
Lloyd, the air board's chairman.
Most carmakers with diesels still expect to be able to sell them in all 50
states after 2006, when federally mandated cleaner diesel fuel hits the
market along with improved emissions technologies.
"I'm pretty confident that we can offer filter systems by then" so diesels
can meet California's 2006 emissions standards, said Gerhard Schmidt, Ford
Motor's vice president of research and advance engineering.
this is more towards bio-diesels, but I seem to have lost the link...
------------------------------------------
"" Why don't we get diesel dealers to start selling low-sulfur diesel now?
It would only benefit the bio-diesel industry to push for low-sulfur oil
fuel because then more people would buy diesel cars, who would in turn buy
more bio-diesel as well. The ability to mix the two fuels, while not a
'purist' position, makes bio-diesel very attractive as a fuel. I know that
we can buy used diesel-engine cars, but frankly, they are very scarce and
expensive for the condition they're in. Having recently owed a 20 year old
Mercedes Benz, I know they are very expensive to fix and maintain. The new
diesel engines are far more efficient and perform better.
Answers:
1. Because it's not the fuel by itself that makes diesel cars meet emissions
standards, but rather the emissions equipment that can be installed because
of the better fuel. Sulfur does a job on emissions equipment and until low
sulfur fuels are mandated everywhere you won't see these emissions devices
on diesel cars. Also, even if it was the fuel all by itself, you'd have to
require that all purchasers fuel their vehicles ONLY on some kind of ULSD
(biodiesel included) and there's just not enough people selling these fuels
at the moment to make that practical.
2. Short answer: Money. Long answer: Money. ULSD is more expensive than
regular diesel, and very few people are going to buy diesel from you if it
costs more than the next guy. Very few stations have the ability to carry
more than one grade of diesel fuel. Therefore, very few stations are going
to carry ULSD until they are forced to do so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
Jeff at Vanagonparts <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM> wrote:
Dennis,
"Here in New York we can't get the TDI due to emissions."
Wow, I though Cali was tough. What if you buy a used TDI out of state?
What if someone who owns a TDI moves to NY?
Cheers,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of Dennis Haynes
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:33 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Beetle TDI test drive (almost no vanagon content)
Yes, new cars cost money. You are looking at a premium for the New
Beetle and for the TDI. The Golf or Jetta will cost less. Personally, I
would go a bit more and get the German built Passat. Here in New York we
can't get the TDI due to emissions. If you are not partial to a VW,
consider a Hyundai Elantra. We can get them here for ~$14k loaded and
they do 32 mpg. You can buy a lot of gas for $8k. They also have the 10
year 100k warranty.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of Jeremy Speer
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:02 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Beetle TDI test drive (almost no vanagon content)
Folks,
So my wife and i took a 2004 TDI beetle for a test drive yesterday.
There's a big move looming for us that will almost certainly involve
commuting, so i'm in the market for a good high fuel milage car, hence
the TDI test drive. Yes, i've driven a first-gen Prius and i'm
interested, but there's a full year wait list and the level of
technology in that car is daunting... it's not something you want to
drive to Alaska just yet.
The last time i drove a VW diesel it was in college in '82... a
friend's Rabbit L diesel. Great car, ran and ran and ran on one tank,
plus it had this nifty James Bond smokescreen effect if you needed to
confuse a bad guy during a getaway. Well, the new turbo diesels are a
whole new animal. It does have turbo lag (maybe it's a diesel thing),
but wind it up a bit and it's got scoot. The car is quite the amalgam:
engine's made in Poland, transmission (manual 5) is from Argentina,
balance is assembled in Mexico from parts made all over the place. In
contrast the Passat is nearly 100% German.
2004 Beetle GLS TDI (non convertible, no leather), out-the-door price:
$22,413. I'm sorry, but that seems like an awful lot of money. Granted
it's less than half what the Touaregs are going for (50 to 54,000), but
i'm still choking. I'm not getting any dealer installed options... so
is there wiggle room on that price? Am i now supposed to haggle?
I paid $10,000 for my Westy... and i've probably put $3500 into it
since.... but i can LIVE in my Westy.
Do i simply need to "get over it, new cars cost money."
Used TDI beetles are very hard to find, suggesting they last and people
keep them. Jetta wagon TDI's are scarce here in Minnesota.
Anybody care to share some wisdom?
Thanks,
-jspeer
'89 Westy GL, "Mystery Machine"
'00 Victory Sport Cruiser <-- for sale!
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