Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:00:20 -0400
Reply-To: tmiller <tmiller@VCMAILS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: tmiller <tmiller@VCMAILS.COM>
Subject: Re: emission ethics
In-Reply-To: <vanagon%2004083115251170@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
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Emission controls are "most effective" in large population desity areas
where the money to pay for them is abundant. A farm family every
square mile won't support an e-check station in a county and would go
broke. It always boils down to money.<br>
TEMiller<br>
<br>
Daniel L. Katz wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midvanagon%252004083115251170@GERRY.VANAGON.COM">
<pre wrap="">list:
if iowa has relatively clean air, yet uses coal relatively extensively and
has relatively little auto emissions regulation, how can this be?
answer: a relatively low population density.
in other words, the most effective immediate way to cope with pollution
and the now permanently decreasing level of petroleum production is
reducing population. this will happen gracefully, or catastrophically, but
is going to happen as the petroleum age comes to an end within the next
40 - 50 years.
dan
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<pre wrap="">If i were still living in Atlanta, I'd probably have to give up the
Vanagon--it's last test was on the verge of not passing. I'd never do
anything to circumvent the testing though--Atlanta has filthy air and
I don't think i'd be happy contributing to it.
So I live now in Iowa, which has some of the cleanest air in the USA,
and a state that makes most of its electricity using coal that makes
pollution that heads straight to the Northeastern United States and
Ontario and Quebec. It's a no-win situation that isn't helped by the
current "New Source Review" policies of the Administration. No
counties in Iowa currently test for vehicle emissions but I don't know
how long that will continue to be the case. The fact is that driving
it adds to the net effect of pollution even though I don't live in a
place with dirty air.
If there was a sure-fire way to make my Vanagon cleaner, though, I'd
do it and cost wouldn't be much of a factor. I'm thinking engine
conversion at some point. Seems like most of the ways to make it
cleaner with the original engine make it practically undriveable. I
drive with my timing advanced which probably makes it dirtier--it's
the only way i can get a stable idle speed. This bothers me, but I
also realize the effect of buying a new "clean" car means that it is
only clean at the tailpipe. The manufacture of a new car creates
immense waste, both air and solid, that from my understanding has more
effect on the environment than driving my dirty Vanagon. Hell, mowing
my grass probably creates more pollution in a single day than my
Vanagon does in a year.
There are no simple answers except to walk/bike when you can, take
public transportation when you can, drive when you have to and combine
those trips (which will have the residual effect of making your
Vanagons last longer).
Donald Baxter
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:15:49 -0700, gary hradek <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hradek@yahoo.com"><hradek@yahoo.com></a>
wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Joy,
We need no ethical guidance on this list when it
comes to emission checks. If you really push this
issue you would not be on the vanagon list at all but
you would be on the low polluting eurovan list.
There are many reasons people choose to handle a
vanagon problem the way they do. We need to take
care not to judge them on this action. Two hundred
dollars may make the difference whether they get
enough to eat or not.
I for one would like to know if advancing the
engine or retarding the engine will decrease NOX?
I thought an engine runs hotter when it is retarded
and thus NOX would be higher? So what do you think?
regards, gary
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:25:39 -0400
From: Joy Hecht <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU"><jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU></a>
Subject: Re: Failed Emissions Check
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">
--
---------------------------------------------
Donald Baxter
316 Ridgeview Avenue
University Heights, Iowa 52246
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mindspring.com/~onanov">http://www.mindspring.com/~onanov</a>
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