Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:24:18 -0500
Reply-To: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: What to replace in a rebuild?
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This will give you a good start on the rebuild:
If this engine is still running......... run some Gunk / Siloo / Rislone
Engine Flush
through it, just follow the instructions.
Change the oil and filter and run 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil in it for
about two hours (don't overfill the crank case) If you can't dive the car
just start it up and run it long enough to get it to operating temp a few
times before you pull the engine.
You'll find that it reduces your engine cleaning time considerably.
When you buy your Gasket set, be sure it has the
front seal # 021-105-247a
rear seal # 029-105=245b
new connecting rod nuts are a good idea too # 113-105-427
the gasket set. Order them extra if they aren't in there.
Order four extra cylinder base gaskets / shims .010 size.
Try to get a gasket set with Viton pushrod seals (O Rings).
Decide if you are going to run German rings or Brazilian rings. (I
prefer the German ring, harder metal, takes a little longer to seat
though.)
Contact JUSTIN 1-800-736-3550, This is IMPEX
Justin@vwparts.com
They will give you a good deal on good OEM bearings and parts.
Tell them that you get 5% from Bus Depot, 10% from Busboys on orders over
$100.00 and they will most likely give you 15%.
Try Gordon Johnson & Sons Machine Shop for your cylinder heads.
New AMC's for little more than rebuilts. #910180 2-liter Air Cooled Vanagon
heads
800-360-1415
------------------------- Engine Rebuild -------------------------------
The parts list below should be fairly close to what parts cost.
Remember to add in for crankshaft polishing about $55.00 to $70.00
Lifter resurfacing, about a buck each. New lifters are about $9.00 each.
New camshaft about $135.00 to $ 180.00
Rod rebuild. Piston end bushings about $8.00 per rod
Machine shop cost of pressing the cam drive gear and distributor gear off
and back onto your crankshaft when you install the rear main bearing,
about $8.00 to $14.00 should cover it. Be sure that the bearing goes on
right the first time; you'll have the crank with the bearing in the right
position at the time you start on the presswork.
------------------------------------
Cost on my recent rebuild on a 2000cc. (these are standard size bearing part
numbers)
[ITEMS PURCHASED]
2 Cylinder heads @ $305.00 each Total $610.00
Part number: 029198075OR CYLINDER & PISTON KIT
Price: $225.00 Quantity: 1 Total: $225.00
Part number: 021198481A MAIN BRGS T2 2000cc
Price: $53.02 Quantity: 1 Total: $53.02
Part number: 021198541 CAM BRGS T2 2.0L
Price: $15.00 Quantity: 1 Total: $15.00
Part number: 071198009A GASKET SET,
Price: $55.67 Quantity: 1 Total: $55.67
Part number: 025198151 RING SET
Price: $61.53 Quantity: 1 Total: $61.53
Part number: 039105701 ROD BEARING SET
Price: $17.55 Quantity: 1 Total: $17.55
Part number: 029198141 CLUTCH KIT
Price: $135.00 Quantity: 1 Total: $135.00
Part number: 111115107BK OIL PUMP
Price: $18.95 Quantity: 1 Total: $18.95
Part number: 022109309 Cam Follower
Price: $9.95 Quantity: 8 Total: $79.60
Part number: 022109021a Camshaft with gear
Price: $139.95 Quantity: 1 Total: $139.95
Part number: 025115111a Oil Pump Gasket (order an extra)
Price: $0.35 Quantity: 1 Total: $0.35
Part number: 022-109-451K Valve Adjusting Screw and Nut Set
Price: $18.80 Qualtity 1 Total: $18.80
-------------- Crankshaft Shim Part Numbers ----------
021-105-291 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .24mm / .0095 in. $2.70
021-105-281 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .30mm / .0120 in. NLA
021-105-283 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .32mm / .0126 in. $4.72
021-105-285 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .34mm / .0134 in. $4.72
021-105-287 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .36mm / .0142 in. $4.72
021-105-289 Shim, Bus & Vanagon, 1972 to 1991, .38mm / .0150 in. $4.72
-------------- ***************** --------------------
Cylinder Base Gasket 1.6 mm thick shims (part No. 071 101 341).
-------------- ***************** --------------------
The factory camshaft (Thrust bearing only, the shell type cam bearing) cam
bearing had a copper finish from
the factory. When one tears the engine down this cam bearing looks severely
worn, when it really is not, that's the way the "Elephant bearings" come
brand new, out of the box. Replacement bearings may have a normal babbit
finish.
------------- ***************** ----------------------
******** Oil Pressure Gauge **************
I can't express strongly enough how important it is to have a working oil
pressure gauge on a newly rebuilt engine. You may choose to just use the
idiot light after your break in period but having an oil pressure gauge is
near mandatory in the first few thousand miles. Although you engine may
start immediately and the oil light will go out you're only measuring about
7 psi. Which is fine for idling at intersections. If you've badly placed a
main bearing shell you will be getting your required 7 psi but you'll be
getting oil blow out around the bearing shell and your engine will shortly
self destruct with burned out rod bearings, seized engine and possibly spun
bearings at one of the main bearing locations. If you've inverted the oil
bypass plunger you'll be getting oil pressure.
-------------------------------------------------------------
If you've never rebuilt an engine; I'd suggest that you get your hands on
a Hayes or Bentleys repair manual and read through it (browse it mostly)
and see what's involved.
If you decide to go ahead with your rebuild run a quart of Marvel Mystery
oil
with your regular engine oil for as long as you can before the teardown.
It also doesn't hurt to run a 1/2 quart with every tank of gas up till
you rebuild. The Mystery oil will clean your oil passages, crankcase
internally, lifters, pistons, piston tops and groves and just in general
remove all of the varnish buildup that's in there.
When you disassemble your engine use a torque wrench to loosen the bolts,
replace bolts or nuts that have been over torqued. Consider using new rod
nuts and crank case nuts and washers, new head bolt nuts and washers are a
good idea too. Clean all bolt threads with a wire brush and wipe them dry.
When you put your pistons into the cylinders, be sure that your flywheel
is on the engine and the oil pump is NOT.
The oil pump tends to jump out of the drive slot when you turn the engine
backwards on occasion during
the piston/ring replacement.
While you've got the engine out go ahead and repack your CV joints and
replace the boots.
******* Setting engine bearings on the pins **********************
This task has proven tricky for many engine builders.
I've found that if I install the bearing pins in the case and set each of #1
and #3 bearings on the pin and scribe or mark the bearings before I put them
on the crankshaft that I can set the crank shaft properly the first time.
This means that you must scribe or mark #3 bearing before you install on the
crankshaft under the cam drive gear.
******* Absolutely *****
Double check the retaining rings at your wrist pins. The arrow on the piston
top points towards the flywheel.
******* Absolutely ***** Double check that the O ring on your oil pickup
tube is in proper position.
Put your distributor drive and your distributor in with the 12 degree angle
set while you can still see the top of the piston and the marks on the back
of your flywheel.
Mark the timing notch on your fan assembly with white paint; you can also
use Liquid Paper or Whiteout for a semi permanent easy to read mark.
If you have AMC heads be certain of whether you need head gaskets or not,
AMCs normally don't use gaskets and OEM VW does use gaskets.
Even if your heads look good you need to have them inspected by a
qualified re builder, heads with 100K on them need new seats / valves and
guides even if they look good to you.
Use engine assembly grease on everything that looks like a bearing,
replace the starter pilot bushing in your bell housing and your clutch
main shaft pilot needle bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Replace the
felt seal and *O* ring in your flywheel.
Don't trust new cylinder piston sets, check your end clearance on the
rings for each cylinder. Clean and lubricate the cylinder walls before
assembly and lube them good after assembly.
If you can (within your budget) replace the camshaft and lifters, about
an extra $180.00 on a good deal price.
I'd recommend that you replace the $2.75 rocker arm adjusting screws if the
show any wear at all.
If you do the job right you could get as much as 140K out of your new
engine before you have to go back in again.
It has been said that the three oil gallery plugs on the flywheel side
should be replaced with 1/8 NPT brass plugs threaded into the block. It
might be something that you want to consider but is not required.
If you've got a 2000cc Type IV engine, set your hydraulic lifters at ONE
TURN from just touching the lifter. NOT the two turns in any of the manuals.
Often it is best to install a new oil pressure-sending unit after the
rebuild (just to be safe). About $5.00
*****************[Setting Deck Height]***************
You cannot run different brands of heads on alternate banks (combustion
chamber cc) you have to run both VW or both AMC. Otherwise you'll have an
expensive and very questionable repair job.
Piston top to cylinder head clearance: Use a piece of hollow 1/8" thin wall
brass hobby tubing. I bought it to check deck clearances when I built my
engine. I crushed it in each cylinder and checked it with a mic after
cutting 1/2" off after each test stroke. (can also use a good tight Crescent
wrench as a measuring devise) Worked great and it crushes enough that it
doesn't lock the stroke or bind the engine. It was a handy 98-cent tool for
checking deck height and piston/head clearance. Just add .010 shims until
you get them evenly matched. You'll probably need to order extra cylinder
base shims in advance ........ four come with a gasket set. Seldom more than
four are required but get four extras, about 90 cents each.
*****************[Very Important]********************
There are four parts you absolutely must keep up with when you
disassemble your engine:
1. Spring under your distributor, tie it to your distributor with a small
bundle tie.
2. Thrust washer under your distributor drive, tie it to your distributor
drive with a small bundle tie.
3. Three thrust washer/spacers on the flywheel end of your crankshaft,
Don't bend them, don't change the stacking order. They should be the
proper thickness for your engine but you need to use a dial gauge and
check crank end play before you reassemble the engine. You can use
Plasti-Gauge to set your crankshaft end clearance. Its nice to have a dial
gauge but the plasti gauge works just as well.
4. Fan spacer or AC pulley, if you install the fan without this
spacer/pulley
it will bind the fan against the fan shroud.
*************** [Best of luck to you!]*****************
Remember! Clean, Clean, Clean that is a big help in engine reassembly.
***************[Engine break in]******************
Fill your filter with oil before you install it.
Crank the engine over without the spark plugs and without the coil wire
until you get oil pressure.
Install 20/50 Wt engine oil, new oil filter. (You can use std. 30 wt if you
prefer)
The engine may be cranking hard at this point and need a few shots of oil in
each cylinder to get it to spin more freely.
Once you get oil pressure install the spark plugs and crank the engine until
it starts.
If your engine is bound up and the starter will not turn the engine ....
STOP!. Investigate to see why the engine is bound up.
It could be binding against the fan shroud. No Spacer or A/C pulley
installed there.
The end play clearance could be set wrong.
You could have set the #3 main on the pin improperly.
Run the engine at 2000 RPMs for twenty minutes. It will take a while for the
lifters and everything to settle in so you'll have noise,smoke and stink.
Don't just guess about this, time it with a watch or watch the clock on your
dash.
You may think that the engine is going to self destruct during this 20
minutes but it will not.
You can shut it down and reset the timing, points if you need to.
If you have to do this shutdown ,,,,,, restart the 20 minute run in
procedure.
Change the oil and filter, remove and clean the strainer after this
20-minute run in.
Drive the vehicle at 2000 RPMs or less for 200 miles. Change the oil,
filter and clean the strainer. You can do the 200 miles in city driving or
better out on a country road but don't let the engine overheat sitting in
traffic. Race the engine up to 2000 RPMs if you get stuck in traffic, you
engines needs the airflow to keep the heat down.
Install 20/50-wt oil after this 200 mile run in. (You can use Std 30 Wt)
Drive the vehicle another 600 to 800 miles keeping the engine at less
than 2000 RPMs and change the oil and filter again.
You should check your lifter setting at this time and check for any oil
leaks.
After you've got this break in done you should wait about 5000 to 8000
miles before you go onto the higher quality synthetic oils.
Go get em!
Stan Wilder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Edwards" <bhs73@SPYMAC.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:00 PM
Subject: What to replace in a rebuild?
> I am either going to be buying a new motor this winter, from a source such
> as AVP, or Bob Donalds, or I will have my local mechanics do the job. They
> are very competent and have done many such rebuilds. I have no qualms
> about their ability to do it, and take care of me afterwards.
>
> The motor in question is a 2.0L Air Cooled. I think it best to have the
> job done locally if I can, for a lot of reasons.
>
> When it comes to just rebuilding the existing engine, I am not sure what
> will be replaced, and what will be used again, outside of the obvious
> parts. When I go to speak with them about the rebuild, I will certainly
> want to know what will be replaced, and what will get checked out and put
> back in. The engine now has about 180K miles on it, runs superbly, no
> smoke, only oil blowing out the seals. Never a problem with emissions. The
> only issue, outside of the age factor, is that the compression is around
> 95-105 and although its not dangerously slow or anything, I would like to
> get it back to something with a bit more zip. Plus, sooner or later, its
> going to leave me stuck somewhere, and probably not right in front of my
> house. :-) Could be a lot later, or it might be soon. If I can find the
> $$$ to do it, I figure the peace of mind would be a good thing.
>
> When I first mentioned a rebuild, they told me it would be no more than
> $1800, and when I asked if it could get past $2000, they were quite
> certain that would not happen. I did not pursue it beyond that for
> details. It may be time to consider going for it, so I would like to
> solicit input as to which components would be okay to use again, and which
> ones ought to go, generally speaking.
>
> I am just looking for information and perhaps experience from others who
> have done it, so I can at least understand what I ought to look out for.
>
> I'm talking about cylinders, heads, the cam, crank, and components like
> that. Will I get a reasonable rebuild for such a price?
>
> Its just a general question, and probably hard to be exact as the parts
> will need to be examined to verify any need to change them out, but my
> engine rebuilding experience is in the V8 world. I have never been inside
> a motor like this one. I am just assuming that there is consensus as to
> what should always be replaced, and what can sometimes be re-used.
>
> Any opinions or experiences will be appreciated.
>
> Mark
