Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 07:06:33 -0700
Reply-To: Vince S <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Vince S <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
In-Reply-To: <4139CC55.2000407@adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mike,
Just returned back from a back to back trips, first into the Gorge then
to Southern Oregon. When I was in the Eastern Gorge amoung 25 or so
vehicles in the state park there were 8 Vanagon Westfalia. At Pistol
River sailing spot there were 3 among 12 vehicles! The weather is cooler
now making very comfortable camping in the Westy. Even got to use the
furnace in the cool morning a bit.
For a few years I had only the primary battery. Those were the years I
didn't have all the modern electronics as I do now. With one battery you
really have to be sure it is in good condition and secondly use it very
sparingly and leave a lot of safety margin.
Having an aux battery as the house battery makes life very comfortable
as you can drain the battery all you want and not having to worry not
able to turn the engine over.
Even with an Optima as the aux battery I found that you still have to be
very conciencious on the usage with entended camping. My highest
consumption is using the sound system at high volume. I try to only use
the inverter when I am driving and the usual use of the inverter is to
charge up all the electronic gadgets. I like to charge a number of them
at the same time as the inverter has an overhead. I am still not
conviced that an compressor based fridge is the way to go without
installing a fairly large deep cycle if you also want to use all the
other modern electronics.
When I first bought my 350W Honda generator I didn't use it much. Now I
always bring it with me though I only use it on occasions to recharge
when the aux battery runs very low.
For the notebook computer I have a Sony Vaio which I have two supersize
battery. One fully charged battery can last the entire DVD plus more. If
you play your DVD from the harddrive it also will extend the battery
life.
On the aux battery wiring, I really like the Westy method of the relay.
It is very simple and effective. I am not sure how easily it can be done
to your 71 bus.
- Vince
http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
1989 Vanagon GL Camper
1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
1996 Land Rover Discovery
2005 Mini Cooper S
-----Original Message-----
From: Rocket J Squirrel [mailto:j.michael.elliott@adelphia.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 7:08 AM
To: Vince S
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
Hi Vince,
Just got back. Had a lovely trip up the coast to Paradise campground, E
of Eugene OR. Damp and overcast but green and very pretty.
Also had the battery discharge to the point where it would not turn the
starter. This after two days of not running the engine. I was surprised
that it faded that quickly. Usage was, I thought, light over the two
days: ambient interior lighting was provided mainly by kerosene, reading
lighting by LED headlamps, and the only other current drains were the
laptop, used to play one movie using a 250-watt inverter, and the
stereo, not played loudly at all. The subwoofer amp was often switched
off. I guess I misjudged how much load we were placing on the battery.
I have noted that the green battery indicator LED only lights when the
car is being driven and for about 15 minutes after being switched off.
Then we go to to Condition Yellow.
Lead-acid batteries are complex animals.
What happened was this: on the second night, halfway through "The
Manchurian Candidate," DVD (the original, black and white, with Frank
Sinatra, Angie Dickenson -- a surprisingly well-done movie, $9.99 at
Wally World) the "fault" beeper on the inverter started chirping. Then I
noticed that the two lamps that illuminate the automatic transmission's
"PRND21" legend were lit. For some reason the dash lights were not
working on this trip, a wiring issue I'll need to troubleshoot as soon
as the Vanagon is back. Someone had turned the key from "off" to "on."
Could have been me -- the stereo is wired to the seatbelt buzzer circuit
so it gets power when the key is inserted. I may have boneheadedly
turned on the key when I turned on the stereo to listen to the movie
(via FM radio -- a separate post). The front curtain prevented me from
seeing the dash indicator LEDs.
"What the . . . ?" I quickly reasoned that the inverter was complaining
of low input voltage. I checked the battery monitor panel: Condition
Red. And more that Condition Red -- it was "faded, barely glimmering
red." Darn. Tried the starter. One grunt then nuttin'.
I reckoned that I could get a jump-start from another camper in the
morning, yet fretted about it all night long.
In the morning, the battery had recovered sufficiently to start the
engine. Surface charge? I dunno -- as I said, lead-acid batteries are
complex animals and I don't understand them very well. I'm not even sure
what happened -- was the battery slowly being discharged due to our
stereo/laptop and minimal lighting usage, or had it been heavily-loaded
during that first hour of "The Manchurian Candidate" when the key was
on? A puzzle to me.
But a better system of monitoring battery condition would be useful.
So would installing that Aux battery with a hefty relay. And/or packing
one of those backup starter batteries. Belt /and/ suspenders.
Other than this little battery issue, the camping trip was a genuine
pleasure. My lovely wife and I found our little Westy to be a darn near
perfect camping vehicle for us.
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 VW Type 2 / 84 Westy: A poor but proud race.
KG6RCR
Vince S wrote:
>Mike,
>
>You are correct the three LEDs are not exactly precision indicator of
>the battery condition. However please bare in mind even with an
>accurate voltmeter monitoring the battery still requires some common
>sense and your knowledge of your own battery.
>
>A sultfated battery can display the same voltage level (when lightly
>loaded) as a healthy battery but it may not be able to provide the
>current to turn the engine over.
>
>For rough indication you should cut back on draining the battery if it
>reach amber. Definite start the engine to recharge the battery if the
>red light up. Please note that the alternator charges at very low rate
>when the engine is idling. It will only provide decent charging current
>at above 2500 RPM.
>
>
>
>- Vince
>
>http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
>1989 Vanagon GL Camper
>1993 Mazda Miata
>1996 Land Rover Discovery
>2005 Mini Cooper S (almost here)
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>Of Rocky Squirrel
>Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:33 AM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Use http://www.onspeed.com/?A=web2mail to transform dial up connections
>to near broadband speed. Reccomended by Web2Mail
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>I hope this message gets through -- we're presently at the Red Lion
>Hotel in Spokane for my niece's wedding. Later today my lovely wife and
>I will fly to Oakland, CA, meet up with our new-to-us 84 Westy and
>begin a weeklong trip up the northern California coastline. It will be
>a longer camping trip than we've ever taken with our Westy. It has a
>single main battery and an automatic transmission, so I know that if
>the battery goes too low, starting the engine might require a jump from
>someone. The engine generally starts easily, not a lot of cranking
>required. To avoid needing a helping hand I will keep an eye on the
>battery LEDs. But three lamps are hardly a precision indicating system.
>Is there a rule of thumb about how to interpret the LEDs vs enough
>juice to start? I also have a digital voltmeter -- how low does the
>battery voltage go when we're looking at Danger Will Robinson?
>
>--
>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
>
>
>
