Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 10:35:15 -0400
Reply-To: William Alexander <william@IDZYN.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: William Alexander <william@IDZYN.COM>
Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
In-Reply-To: <000501c4941a$b7acc430$c200a8c0@vsovaio>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Forgive me if I'm asking about a common knowledge question - but is
there a preferred battery to buy for the aux battery space under the
seat - I keep hearing mention that normal batteries won't fit there? I
definitely plan on adding one to mine but am not sure which battery to
purchase.
A second similar question on a different subject:
Is there a popular heater of some sort that folks use to generate heat
inside the van on cold nights? some small kerosene heater or something
like that?
Thanks for the help
William Alexander
Roanoke, VA
1987 Westy - searching for a name
On Sep 6, 2004, at 10:06 AM, Vince S wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Just returned back from a back to back trips, first into the Gorge then
> to Southern Oregon. When I was in the Eastern Gorge amoung 25 or so
> vehicles in the state park there were 8 Vanagon Westfalia. At Pistol
> River sailing spot there were 3 among 12 vehicles! The weather is
> cooler
> now making very comfortable camping in the Westy. Even got to use the
> furnace in the cool morning a bit.
>
> For a few years I had only the primary battery. Those were the years I
> didn't have all the modern electronics as I do now. With one battery
> you
> really have to be sure it is in good condition and secondly use it very
> sparingly and leave a lot of safety margin.
>
> Having an aux battery as the house battery makes life very comfortable
> as you can drain the battery all you want and not having to worry not
> able to turn the engine over.
>
> Even with an Optima as the aux battery I found that you still have to
> be
> very conciencious on the usage with entended camping. My highest
> consumption is using the sound system at high volume. I try to only use
> the inverter when I am driving and the usual use of the inverter is to
> charge up all the electronic gadgets. I like to charge a number of them
> at the same time as the inverter has an overhead. I am still not
> conviced that an compressor based fridge is the way to go without
> installing a fairly large deep cycle if you also want to use all the
> other modern electronics.
>
> When I first bought my 350W Honda generator I didn't use it much. Now I
> always bring it with me though I only use it on occasions to recharge
> when the aux battery runs very low.
>
> For the notebook computer I have a Sony Vaio which I have two supersize
> battery. One fully charged battery can last the entire DVD plus more.
> If
> you play your DVD from the harddrive it also will extend the battery
> life.
>
> On the aux battery wiring, I really like the Westy method of the relay.
> It is very simple and effective. I am not sure how easily it can be
> done
> to your 71 bus.
>
>
> - Vince
>
> http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
> 1989 Vanagon GL Camper
> 1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
> 1996 Land Rover Discovery
> 2005 Mini Cooper S
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rocket J Squirrel [mailto:j.michael.elliott@adelphia.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 7:08 AM
> To: Vince S
> Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>
>
> Hi Vince,
>
> Just got back. Had a lovely trip up the coast to Paradise campground, E
> of Eugene OR. Damp and overcast but green and very pretty.
>
> Also had the battery discharge to the point where it would not turn the
> starter. This after two days of not running the engine. I was surprised
> that it faded that quickly. Usage was, I thought, light over the two
> days: ambient interior lighting was provided mainly by kerosene,
> reading
>
> lighting by LED headlamps, and the only other current drains were the
> laptop, used to play one movie using a 250-watt inverter, and the
> stereo, not played loudly at all. The subwoofer amp was often switched
> off. I guess I misjudged how much load we were placing on the battery.
>
> I have noted that the green battery indicator LED only lights when the
> car is being driven and for about 15 minutes after being switched off.
> Then we go to to Condition Yellow.
>
> Lead-acid batteries are complex animals.
>
> What happened was this: on the second night, halfway through "The
> Manchurian Candidate," DVD (the original, black and white, with Frank
> Sinatra, Angie Dickenson -- a surprisingly well-done movie, $9.99 at
> Wally World) the "fault" beeper on the inverter started chirping. Then
> I
>
> noticed that the two lamps that illuminate the automatic transmission's
> "PRND21" legend were lit. For some reason the dash lights were not
> working on this trip, a wiring issue I'll need to troubleshoot as soon
> as the Vanagon is back. Someone had turned the key from "off" to "on."
> Could have been me -- the stereo is wired to the seatbelt buzzer
> circuit
>
> so it gets power when the key is inserted. I may have boneheadedly
> turned on the key when I turned on the stereo to listen to the movie
> (via FM radio -- a separate post). The front curtain prevented me from
> seeing the dash indicator LEDs.
>
> "What the . . . ?" I quickly reasoned that the inverter was complaining
> of low input voltage. I checked the battery monitor panel: Condition
> Red. And more that Condition Red -- it was "faded, barely glimmering
> red." Darn. Tried the starter. One grunt then nuttin'.
>
> I reckoned that I could get a jump-start from another camper in the
> morning, yet fretted about it all night long.
>
> In the morning, the battery had recovered sufficiently to start the
> engine. Surface charge? I dunno -- as I said, lead-acid batteries are
> complex animals and I don't understand them very well. I'm not even
> sure
>
> what happened -- was the battery slowly being discharged due to our
> stereo/laptop and minimal lighting usage, or had it been heavily-loaded
> during that first hour of "The Manchurian Candidate" when the key was
> on? A puzzle to me.
>
> But a better system of monitoring battery condition would be useful.
>
> So would installing that Aux battery with a hefty relay. And/or packing
> one of those backup starter batteries. Belt /and/ suspenders.
>
> Other than this little battery issue, the camping trip was a genuine
> pleasure. My lovely wife and I found our little Westy to be a darn near
> perfect camping vehicle for us.
> --
>
> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> 71 VW Type 2 / 84 Westy: A poor but proud race.
> KG6RCR
>
>
> Vince S wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>> You are correct the three LEDs are not exactly precision indicator of
>> the battery condition. However please bare in mind even with an
>> accurate voltmeter monitoring the battery still requires some common
>> sense and your knowledge of your own battery.
>>
>> A sultfated battery can display the same voltage level (when lightly
>> loaded) as a healthy battery but it may not be able to provide the
>> current to turn the engine over.
>>
>> For rough indication you should cut back on draining the battery if it
>> reach amber. Definite start the engine to recharge the battery if the
>> red light up. Please note that the alternator charges at very low rate
>> when the engine is idling. It will only provide decent charging
>> current
>
>> at above 2500 RPM.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Vince
>>
>> http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
>> 1989 Vanagon GL Camper
>> 1993 Mazda Miata
>> 1996 Land Rover Discovery
>> 2005 Mini Cooper S (almost here)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf
>
>> Of Rocky Squirrel
>> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:33 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Use http://www.onspeed.com/?A=web2mail to transform dial up
>> connections
>
>> to near broadband speed. Reccomended by Web2Mail
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I hope this message gets through -- we're presently at the Red Lion
>> Hotel in Spokane for my niece's wedding. Later today my lovely wife
>> and
>
>> I will fly to Oakland, CA, meet up with our new-to-us 84 Westy and
>> begin a weeklong trip up the northern California coastline. It will be
>> a longer camping trip than we've ever taken with our Westy. It has a
>> single main battery and an automatic transmission, so I know that if
>> the battery goes too low, starting the engine might require a jump
>> from
>
>> someone. The engine generally starts easily, not a lot of cranking
>> required. To avoid needing a helping hand I will keep an eye on the
>> battery LEDs. But three lamps are hardly a precision indicating
>> system.
>
>> Is there a rule of thumb about how to interpret the LEDs vs enough
>> juice to start? I also have a digital voltmeter -- how low does the
>> battery voltage go when we're looking at Danger Will Robinson?
>>
>> --
>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
>>
>>
>>
>
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