Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:35:06 +0000
Reply-To: Chris DeLong <green536@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Chris DeLong <green536@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
in order to install an optima into a westy with swivel seats, the terminals
on top must be cut off. That is of course if you are installing it under the
front seat.
Chris DeLong
Fine Tuning
206.522.5503
www.finetuningperformance.com
Seattle, WA USA
>From: Vince S <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
>Reply-To: Vince S <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:40:29 -0700
>
>Mike,
>
>I don't know if all Vanagon Westy with shivel seats are the same though
>I will be surprised if they aren't. Looks like Sean has a 90 Vanagon.
>
>
>
>- Vince
>
>http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
>1989 Vanagon GL Camper
>1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
>1996 Land Rover Discovery
>2005 Mini Cooper S
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>Of Michael Elliott
>Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 1:28 PM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>
>
>What?!? Because I have shriveled seats I have to hack and chop the
>yellowtop Optima that I just ordered??? Rats. I thought the thing would
>fit on its side.
>
>I was /wondering/ why the pictures on Sean's site
>(http://www.vgonman.com/auxbat.htm) showed so much room under the
>seats!!
>
>Grumble, grumble.
>
>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>71 VW Type 2 / 84 Westy: A poor but proud race.
>KG6RCR
>
>
>
>Vince S wrote:
>
> >Bill,
> >
> >I assume your 87 Westy has shrivel seats. Given that the only car size
> >battery that will fit in the aux battery compartment is the Group 41
> >battery just like the one under the passenger seat. This battery is the
>
> >easiest to install it fits like a pair of glove. I used this for years.
>
> >You can order the battery hold down bar from VW or find one from a
> >wrecked Vanagon.
> >
> >The drawback of the group 41 battery is it is a starting battery and
> >down work well if you draw the battery down very low. On the flip side
> >is you can get them so cheap so that may not matter.
> >
> >Many folks including myself installed the Optima yellow top (deep
> >cycle) or red top (good starting battery) but it requires some
> >modification to the battery which can be a lot of work. Vanagon without
>
> >the Shrivel seats can fit the Optima on it's side which requires
> >securing the battery so the positive terminal does not short out to the
>
> >chassis. Either of the Optima battery performs significantly better
> >than the group 41 due to the spiral wound glass fabric construction.
> >
> >I have a page on my site about the modification I have to perform.
> >
> >
> >
> >- Vince
> >
> >http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
> >1989 Vanagon GL Camper
> >1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
> >1996 Land Rover Discovery
> >2005 Mini Cooper S
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>
> >Of William Alexander
> >Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:35 AM
> >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
> >
> >
> >Forgive me if I'm asking about a common knowledge question - but is
> >there a preferred battery to buy for the aux battery space under the
> >seat - I keep hearing mention that normal batteries won't fit there? I
> >definitely plan on adding one to mine but am not sure which battery to
> >purchase.
> >
> >A second similar question on a different subject:
> >
> >Is there a popular heater of some sort that folks use to generate heat
> >inside the van on cold nights? some small kerosene heater or something
> >like that?
> >
> >Thanks for the help
> >
> >William Alexander
> >Roanoke, VA
> >1987 Westy - searching for a name
> >
> >
> >
> >On Sep 6, 2004, at 10:06 AM, Vince S wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Mike,
> >>
> >>Just returned back from a back to back trips, first into the Gorge
> >>then to Southern Oregon. When I was in the Eastern Gorge amoung 25 or
> >>so vehicles in the state park there were 8 Vanagon Westfalia. At
> >>Pistol River sailing spot there were 3 among 12 vehicles! The weather
> >>is cooler now making very comfortable camping in the Westy. Even got
> >>to use the furnace in the cool morning a bit.
> >>
> >>For a few years I had only the primary battery. Those were the years I
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>didn't have all the modern electronics as I do now. With one battery
> >>you really have to be sure it is in good condition and secondly use it
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>very sparingly and leave a lot of safety margin.
> >>
> >>Having an aux battery as the house battery makes life very comfortable
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>as you can drain the battery all you want and not having to worry not
> >>able to turn the engine over.
> >>
> >>Even with an Optima as the aux battery I found that you still have to
> >>be very conciencious on the usage with entended camping. My highest
> >>consumption is using the sound system at high volume. I try to only
> >>
> >>
> >use
> >
> >
> >>the inverter when I am driving and the usual use of the inverter is to
>
> >>charge up all the electronic gadgets. I like to charge a number of
> >>
> >>
> >them
> >
> >
> >>at the same time as the inverter has an overhead. I am still not
> >>conviced that an compressor based fridge is the way to go without
> >>installing a fairly large deep cycle if you also want to use all the
> >>other modern electronics.
> >>
> >>When I first bought my 350W Honda generator I didn't use it much. Now
> >>I always bring it with me though I only use it on occasions to
> >>recharge when the aux battery runs very low.
> >>
> >>For the notebook computer I have a Sony Vaio which I have two
> >>supersize battery. One fully charged battery can last the entire DVD
> >>plus more. If you play your DVD from the harddrive it also will extend
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>the battery life.
> >>
> >>On the aux battery wiring, I really like the Westy method of the
> >>relay. It is very simple and effective. I am not sure how easily it
> >>can be done to your 71 bus.
> >>
> >>
> >>- Vince
> >>
> >>http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
> >>1989 Vanagon GL Camper
> >>1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
> >>1996 Land Rover Discovery
> >>2005 Mini Cooper S
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Rocket J Squirrel [mailto:j.michael.elliott@adelphia.net]
> >>Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 7:08 AM
> >>To: Vince S
> >>Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >>Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi Vince,
> >>
> >>Just got back. Had a lovely trip up the coast to Paradise campground,
> >>E of Eugene OR. Damp and overcast but green and very pretty.
> >>
> >>Also had the battery discharge to the point where it would not turn
> >>the starter. This after two days of not running the engine. I was
> >>surprised that it faded that quickly. Usage was, I thought, light over
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>the two
> >>days: ambient interior lighting was provided mainly by kerosene,
> >>reading
> >>
> >>lighting by LED headlamps, and the only other current drains were the
> >>laptop, used to play one movie using a 250-watt inverter, and the
> >>stereo, not played loudly at all. The subwoofer amp was often switched
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>off. I guess I misjudged how much load we were placing on the battery.
> >>
> >>I have noted that the green battery indicator LED only lights when the
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>car is being driven and for about 15 minutes after being switched off.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Then we go to to Condition Yellow.
> >>
> >>Lead-acid batteries are complex animals.
> >>
> >>What happened was this: on the second night, halfway through "The
> >>Manchurian Candidate," DVD (the original, black and white, with Frank
> >>Sinatra, Angie Dickenson -- a surprisingly well-done movie, $9.99 at
> >>Wally World) the "fault" beeper on the inverter started chirping. Then
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>I
> >>
> >>noticed that the two lamps that illuminate the automatic
> >>transmission's "PRND21" legend were lit. For some reason the dash
> >>lights were not working on this trip, a wiring issue I'll need to
> >>troubleshoot as soon as the Vanagon is back. Someone had turned the
> >>key from "off" to "on." Could have been me -- the stereo is wired to
> >>the seatbelt buzzer circuit
> >>
> >>so it gets power when the key is inserted. I may have boneheadedly
> >>turned on the key when I turned on the stereo to listen to the movie
> >>(via FM radio -- a separate post). The front curtain prevented me from
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>seeing the dash indicator LEDs.
> >>
> >>"What the . . . ?" I quickly reasoned that the inverter was
> >>complaining of low input voltage. I checked the battery monitor panel:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Condition Red. And more that Condition Red -- it was "faded, barely
> >>glimmering red." Darn. Tried the starter. One grunt then nuttin'.
> >>
> >>I reckoned that I could get a jump-start from another camper in the
> >>morning, yet fretted about it all night long.
> >>
> >>In the morning, the battery had recovered sufficiently to start the
> >>engine. Surface charge? I dunno -- as I said, lead-acid batteries are
> >>complex animals and I don't understand them very well. I'm not even
> >>sure
> >>
> >>what happened -- was the battery slowly being discharged due to our
> >>stereo/laptop and minimal lighting usage, or had it been
> >>heavily-loaded during that first hour of "The Manchurian Candidate"
> >>when the key was on? A puzzle to me.
> >>
> >>But a better system of monitoring battery condition would be useful.
> >>
> >>So would installing that Aux battery with a hefty relay. And/or
> >>packing one of those backup starter batteries. Belt /and/ suspenders.
> >>
> >>Other than this little battery issue, the camping trip was a genuine
> >>pleasure. My lovely wife and I found our little Westy to be a darn
> >>near perfect camping vehicle for us.
> >>--
> >>
> >>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> >>71 VW Type 2 / 84 Westy: A poor but proud race.
> >>KG6RCR
> >>
> >>
> >>Vince S wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Mike,
> >>>
> >>>You are correct the three LEDs are not exactly precision indicator of
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>the battery condition. However please bare in mind even with an
> >>>accurate voltmeter monitoring the battery still requires some common
> >>>sense and your knowledge of your own battery.
> >>>
> >>>A sultfated battery can display the same voltage level (when lightly
> >>>loaded) as a healthy battery but it may not be able to provide the
> >>>current to turn the engine over.
> >>>
> >>>For rough indication you should cut back on draining the battery if
> >>>it reach amber. Definite start the engine to recharge the battery if
> >>>the red light up. Please note that the alternator charges at very low
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>rate when the engine is idling. It will only provide decent charging
> >>>current
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>at above 2500 RPM.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>- Vince
> >>>
> >>>http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
> >>>1989 Vanagon GL Camper
> >>>1993 Mazda Miata
> >>>1996 Land Rover Discovery
> >>>2005 Mini Cooper S (almost here)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> >>>Behalf
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Of Rocky Squirrel
> >>>Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:33 AM
> >>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >>>Subject: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Use http://www.onspeed.com/?A=web2mail to transform dial up
> >>>connections
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>to near broadband speed. Reccomended by Web2Mail
> >>>-----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>I hope this message gets through -- we're presently at the Red Lion
> >>>Hotel in Spokane for my niece's wedding. Later today my lovely wife
> >>>and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I will fly to Oakland, CA, meet up with our new-to-us 84 Westy and
> >>>begin a weeklong trip up the northern California coastline. It will
> >>>be a longer camping trip than we've ever taken with our Westy. It has
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>a single main battery and an automatic transmission, so I know that
> >>>if the battery goes too low, starting the engine might require a jump
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>from
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>someone. The engine generally starts easily, not a lot of cranking
> >>>required. To avoid needing a helping hand I will keep an eye on the
> >>>battery LEDs. But three lamps are hardly a precision indicating
> >>>system.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Is there a rule of thumb about how to interpret the LEDs vs enough
> >>>juice to start? I also have a digital voltmeter -- how low does the
> >>>battery voltage go when we're looking at Danger Will Robinson?
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
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