Date:         Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:30:10 -0700
Reply-To:     Tom Sinclair <neeemo@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tom Sinclair <neeemo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Exhaust Pipe Question / No Question for Me
In-Reply-To:  <b7.45d8e13d.2e7d939e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I installed one of the Dansk systems on my 84 and it
fit perfectly and is still in fine shape after 6
years.

Tom

--- George Goff <THX0001@AOL.COM> wrote:

> In a message dated 9/17/04 3:24:25 PM,
> vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM writes:
>
> << Then we disagree, although I would not be so rude
> as to call your
> opinion "hogwash" . . . >>
>
> Because you can't.  Anyway, I don't disagree with
> you . . . you are simply
> wrong.  You told the innocents reading this list
> that "These Danish made pipes
> are direct copies of the originals and have the same
> fit and quality as what
> the dealer sells, but for much less money."
> Subsequently you said, "No they are
> not identical,".  Which is it this time, Ron?  Stop
> the hogwash, the two are
> simply not equivalent.
>
> Holding the two side-by-side for comparison will
> only tell you how shoddy the
> aftermarket pipes are made.  But, clamp them to a
> surface plate and then
> check all the measurements.  I KNOW the aftermarket
> pipes are no where near where
> they should be.  If an exhaust port flange is cocked
> just a little, the pipe
> will be way out on the other end.
>
> As far as the welds go, I am not talking about how
> neat they are, although
> that says manifolds about the man who made them, I'm
> talking about the integrity
> of the welds and not having to suffer the nuisance
> of facing off the flanges,
> because of some slopped on filler metal, before
> bolting up the pipes.
>
> The factory pipes do not require an oxyacetylene
> torch to install as yours
> do.  I've even replaced one factory pipe at a time
> with no need to force them
> into alignment.  And heating an exhaust pipe to
> workable temperature only
> shortens its life.
>
> Then there is the almighty dollar and the cost of
> one over the other.  I see
> no great bargain here; for something to be a bargain
> it has to also have
> value.  In my experience and in my part of the
> universe the aftermarket pipes I
> have seen last 1/3 to 1/2 the life of VW factory
> pipes.  That's no bargain.  In
> fact at least one of the Syncro pipes listed at
> BusDepot costs more than the
> last one I bought at the local dealer without the
> additional expense of shipping.
>
> Did you say stainless?  Now, please tell, which one
> of the vendors reported
> on this list that his stainless headers were being
> fabricated with mild steel
> flanges?  That design must have made sense to
> someone somewhere.
>
> I flatly recommend to any one replacing a Vanagon
> exhaust system to coil up
> their torch hose and to spend the money for the
> factory parts, it will be
> cheaper in the end and without the risk of bitching
> the exhaust stud tappings.  If
> you want to save some dough, install a Walker/Napa
> muffler; they're cheap,
> have a lifetime warranty and are available every
> where.  Use stainless fasteners
> and lather some anti-seize (Fel-Pro C-5A, the BEST
> if you can find it) on all
> the fasteners and the gaskets, then changing the
> muffler is easy and only
> costs the price of a couple gaskets.
>
> Some 15 years ago, whenever I started on the path to
> Vanagon exhaust pipe
> Nirvana, Gordi of 4ever4 in the exhaust-eating
> epicenter of New Hampshire told me
> to use only VW factory pipes.  But I was then stupid
> and cheap, so I
> disregarded his wisdom.  After much misery and
> misspent dollars, I am now humbled and
> I see the truth in his words.
>
> George
> PS: This country has become so awash with junk that
> the word "value" is
> almost passe.  From shoes to rubber bands, from Levi
> 501's to KichenAid mixers we
> are being fed a steady diet of increasingly inferior
> goods fueled by some
> perverse more-is-more mentality.  So, I'm going to
> bore you all with an anecdote
> about what value really means.
>
> About a dozen years ago I went to my tailor, Mr.
> Balagusz (Lord have Mercy,
> Lord have Mercy, Lord have Mercy) to see about
> having him make a duffle coat
> for me.  Mr. Balagusz was a great guy.  He looked
> sort of like a lean Otto
> Preminger, complete with accent and a constant
> twinkle in his bright blue eyes.  He
> was old and from the Old School.  Following WWII he
> had made topcoats from
> army blankets for his fellow inmates in the refugee
> camps of Eastern Europe.
>
> I was having trouble finding a decent duffle coat to
> replace the one I had
> for so long.  I showed Mr. Balagusz my duffle coat
> and boasted how it had served
> me well for nearly twenty years.  With that he went
> into the back room of his
> shop and brought out a garment bag.  In it was a
> topcoat he had made whenever
> he first arrived in the US.  If I had seen a swatch
> of the material from
> which the coat was made, I would have thought it was
> tacky.  It was a muted
> blue-green color woven in a strong twill pattern.
> But, it was as soft as the breast
> I suckled as a baby and when he put it on, he looked
> elegant.  With a sly
> smile, he told me that coat would soon be FIFTY
> years old.
>
> I asked him if he could replicate my duffle coat.
> He said he could but he
> would not do it.  Saying, "I make you beautiful
> coat," he went on to explain
> that since his work was the greatest part of the
> cost of a garment, it would be
> foolish for him to make a course duffle coat for me
> when for a few dollars more
> he could make a fine topcoat.
>
> That brought us to the crux of the matter: how much?
>  Now, from the work he
> had done for me previously, I knew he was the most
> expensive tailor in my burg,
> but he was also the best.  Still, I was not ready
> for 4 figures to roll off
> his tongue so easily.  Somewhat in a state of shock,
> I mumbled my thanks and
> told him that I would consider it.
>
> Once home, I told my curious Sweetheart what had
> transpired.  Without batting
> and eye, she said, "Good.  Go back and have him
> measure you."  That gave me
> the opportunity to explain the realities of the
> matter to her, such as: it's
> too expensive and I have a nearly new Brooks
> Brothers coat in the closet which
> was not cheap in and of itself.  She countered with
> women's logic: Mr. Balagusz
> is a wonderful man who does beautiful work; you
> always complain that few
> things fit you right; you'll have it the rest of
> your life.  That struck a cord
> and I found myself standing in the middle of Mr.
> Balagusz's shop, my beaming
> wife sitting nearby with the pug we would also
> eventually buy from Mr. Balagusz
> dozing on her lap.
>
> The coat turned out to be a bargain.  From the hand
> stitched buttonholes to
> the finest Cashmere material to the soft woolen
> doeskin pocket linings, it is
> in a class by itself.  My wife was right, I will
> have it the rest of my life
> and it will always look great.  The best thing of
> all about a garment of this
> caliber is the fit.  Whenever I put it on, I forget
> that I am wearing it.  For
> what it cost I could have several lesser garments,
> but now I don't have to
> concern myself with buying another one.
>
> The following year, after I had fully recovered from
> sticker shock, I decided
> to have Mr. Balagusz make a three piece suit for me.
>  Sadly, I waited a
> little too long for he fell asleep with the Lord.  I
> guess I stayed stupid for too
> long . . .  less IS more.
>




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