Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:56:49 -0500
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Shifting Shudder Part II
In-Reply-To: <414A6853.1030202@mchsi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I will consider the possibility I am wrong, but here is the story. You
be the judge.
I had the tranny rebuilt in my 88 GL, and when it was re-installed, I
also had a brand new Sachs clutch assembly installed, with all new
c\utch disc, flywheel resurfaced, etc, etc, etc,..... the works. Three
thousand miles later ..... unrelated to the tranny and clutch issues
...the engine burned a piston. I bought a newly rebuilt engine from a
reputable local rebuilder ( I still have the old one sans heads) and
had it installed. In about 1000 miles I began to have a little clutch
shuddering. Miniscule amount in the beginning, but over time it got
progressively worse, and thn the clutch began to slip. The slippage was
not much in the beginning but it progressed rapidly to the point I could
not drive the vehicle. At that point, I took it back to the guy that had
done the install of the new engine. He pulled the tranny, clutch and
flywheel, installed a new seal, and ---- at my request - milled the
flywheel, and installed a complete new clutch assembly. I paid for the
new parts, the mechanic stood good for the labor, and he and the
rebuilder settled that labor bill between them.
I have never had a lick of trouble from any of that work since and it's
over 60,000 miles later.
So as you see, from my standpoint and my experience ....... those seals
can and do create shuddering and slippage problems.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Al and Sue Brase wrote:
> John:
> I'm really skeptical if/how oil leaking from the rear engine seal would
> EVER get onto the clutch. I think it would be on the engine side of the
> flywheel. upon migrating to the outer edge would it not be flung off to
> the inner side of the flywheel housing? Whereupon it would run down one
> side or the other and drip out the bottom. There would have to be a
> DELUGE in there, or 2" deep to get on the disc! If the seal leaked that
> bad, a ruined clutch disc would not be your number one problem.
> A leaking transaxle input shaft seal, WOULD put oil almost directly onto
> the splines of the disc. Centifugal force would soon move it to the
> friction material.
> The bad news is: Every failed trans seal that I've found was riding on a
> grooved input shaft. Changing them is pretty easy, but involves taking
> the trans apart a little. And you need a circlip pliers. One of the seal
> companies might make one of those repair sleeves, which would make
> repair a bit easier yet. (And the apparently work !)
> Having said that, EVERY shuddering clutch I've encountered has had an
> unevenly worn release fork. The clutch cannot possibly release smoothly
> if the bearing surface is not parallel to the flywheel.
> Al Brase
> 69 doublecab, Vanagons
>
> John Rodgers wrote:
>
>> Even small amounts of oil leaking from the flywheel seal is sufficient
>> to cause clutch shuddering if it gets on the flywheel /clutch disc
>> interface. My seal leak was minimal, no dripping, just a wet place on
>> the housing, but it very effectively killed the clutch.
>>
>> John Rodgers
>> 88 GL Driver
>>
>> Michael Rule wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the diagnosis suggestions, and clutch slave cyl.
>>> explanations!
>>>
>>> Another question occurred to me while considering the suggestions
>>> offered: If, as suggested by a few, the clutch is "shuddering" due
>>> to a blown "clutch seal" (which seems to be analogous to a Detroit
>>> Steel rear-main seal) leaking oil onto the clutch plate, is it a fair
>>> presumption that the engine would have to be leaking heavily to slop
>>> onto the clutch and cause trouble?
>>>
>>> I have (apparently) have no (visible) engine oil leak, altho it
>>> appears the tranny is seeping from somewhere (visible moist buildup
>>> of fluid on tranny and engine... oil? tranny fluid? dunno! on the
>>> outside of the case)... will sniff-test to try to identify this
>>> weekend.
>>>
>>> On a standard "front of engine is front of car" setup, it's easy to
>>> imagine oil leaks blowing back onto a clutch/ tranny, esp. from a
>>> blown rear-main... on these rear-engine critters, it's tough for me
>>> to imagine... but then, I've no experience with these engines, that's
>>> why I'm on The List!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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