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Date:         Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:01:54 -0600
Reply-To:     Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Oil Pan Heater (immersion vs. stickon)
In-Reply-To:  <AE1D8B8D-1301-11D9-8233-003065A72624@oanet.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Don: This is 7200 feet, the combination of thin air, cold winters, a worn engine and a thick head gasket really makes a warm engine necessary. Curious to see how the biodiesel fires a cold engine this winter. Just being able to start it isn't good enough, I want it warm. So I have 3 of the immersion heaters installed for a total of 1200 watts of heat. It's a great system. I believe the external circulating heater powers 1200 watts but the 3 internal heaters work very fast, the head is warming in a few minutes and the heat is extremely reliable. I'm not concerned with the oil heating issue. The only real weakness with immersion heaters is grounding, it's a disaster when the GFCI won't let you run a heater.

I do carry a can of sterno for emergency, in case there is no electricity, but it's useless in windy weather. If there were a propane fired heater I'd probably install one just for overkill. If I had the drip pan that wouldn't be possible. I sleep on top of my engine so excess overnight heat isn't totally wasted. 2 relays control the 3 heaters so I can choose 400, 800 or 1200 watts of heat. Wish I could control them from my computer. Hmmm...

Fun chatting with you and looking at a snowy winter.

-- Gnarlie

Entity don spence spoke thus:

> Gnarlie > I don't know where you live but up here in the Great White North engine > heaters were de rigeur prior to global warming. The improvements in > engine management technology (FI) and the warmer winters have meant I > haven't plugged in for over 10 years. Except for the Vanagon, which is > not often used in the winter. We just don't get those prolonged > periods of -40 (C or F, take your pick as they are the same at that > temp) > Grampa used to say... "The best thing going for starting in winter is > park it on the manure pile and throw a blanket over the engine". Worked > on grampa's Model T. > > My vanagon has an under pan heater which works well. The advantage > here is it warms the oil, thinning it and allowing lubrication as well > as removing resistance and stress on the oil pump. Allows a useful > cranking speed, instant oil flow to the bearings etc. The heat will > migrate to the upper engine as well. Usually takes 2 hours. Set a timer > if you need it in the morning. > I used a dipstick oil heater on a 68 beetle many years ago. It started > but a beetle without a working gas heater was no match for a prairie > winter. > > Engine block heaters are a bitch to install in a cramped engine > compartment as the go in a frost plug hole which is usually tucked > under a manifold etc. They will heat the coolant that comes in contact > with the element and again the heat will migrate to the rest of the > engine over time. They can be left plugged in indefinitely. Only caveat > is the cost of electricity. > > The best system and easiest to install is a circulating in line heater > that you insert into a rad hose. These little units heat the coolant > and thermo pump it around the block there by warming the entire engine > block. Unfortunately neither the immersion nor the circulating heaters > have a direct impact on the oil in the sump. > > Of course you can park it in a heated garage there by inviting early > rust outs... but that's another discussion. > Cheers > > > On Wednesday, September 29, 2004, at 10:00 PM, Automatic digest > processor wrote: > >> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:28:40 -0600 >> From: Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@EARTHLINK.NET> >> Subject: Re: Oil Pan Heater (immersion vs. stickon) >> >> Several claims here are a little hard to believe, I'll respond to them >> itemwise. >> >>> Our oil pan heaters are thin, flexible heating pads that are >>> permanently >>> bonded to the oil pan. >>> The heater has the special adhesive already on it, by simply peeling >>> of the >>> protective backing and >>> pressing the heater firmly in place on a clean, flat surface, the >>> heater is >>> ready to be used. >> My experience is that oil combined with heat wreaks havoc on the >> stickum. >> Once the glue separates from direct contact heat transfer is >> drastically >> slowed. And if a sharp object tears your heatpad it's dangerous when >> wet. >> >> They do work well when stuck to a battery though. >> >>> No special tools or skills are required. Everything for a complete >>> installation is included with each heater. >> I admit, installing the immersion heater is a bitch. This would work >> for >> stopgap. >> >>> An Oil Pan Heater is far superior to a block heater and more >>> efficient. >> Not true at all. The pad I used was only 50 watts and in cold weather >> (0degF) could do no more than heat the oil a little. The only >> advantage to >> the pad is you could leave it on all night, which you can't really do >> with >> an immersion heater. But maybe they expect you to leave it on all the >> time. >> >>> A block heater only "warms" a part of the engine. >> But the important part, the liquid. And fast, at 400 watts. You can >> hear the >> heater popping and crackling in there so you know it's working. The >> warm >> liquid rises up to the combustion chamber where it does the most good. >> Plus, your heater works a lot sooner. >> >>> An Oil Pan Heater "heats" the complete engine starting at the bottom. >> But this process takes hours, and only under ideal conditions. For >> example, >> if it's windy you lose the heat as fast as it's generated because it's >> trying to move outside in. >> >>> The hot oil heats the crankshaft, >>> which in turn heats the connecting rods, pistons and cylinder >>> heads. Remember "heat" rises. >> When you need to start you engine in 20 minutes you don't need a warm >> crankshaft, you need a warm combustion chamber. >> >>> We recommend the model 9.0 for your VW Vanagon. >> OK, I see 125 watts in a 3 inch diameter stickon. I still say the >> immersion >> heater is vastly superior but the stickon heater would be good for >> certain >> applications, such as big trucks with high ground clearance. >> >>> The price of the model 9.0 is $59.00.00 Cdn. Dlrs Shipping charges are >>> included in price. >> Woah, expensive too! what's that in $US? >> >>> Web site http://www.padheaters.com/


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