Date:         Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:51:20 -0700
Reply-To:     Doug in Calif <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Doug in Calif <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
Subject:      heater heating insulation cold and rain
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I can only say I have camped once in the snow in my (now sold) 85 sunroof vanagon.
I have to say it was marvelous, we had the whole campground to ourselves with heated camp restrooms with hot running water (no shower though).
It was one of the best "get-always" in the vanagon to date. 
I did have my corvair gas heater installed under the back seat which we clicked on a few times during the night to warm the van up. I had made Plexiglas window shades for the windows to keep the sun out which actually insulated the van quite a bit.
I had also carpeted the van with ribbed carpet over door skin for the ceiling which also added insulation.
Lots of sleeping bags kept us plenty warm in the 25 degree temps outside. 

In outfitting my newest camping vanagon the  87 syncro GL to westy conversion I have been using the foil bubble mat for the side walls and I used some thin carpet and 
laminate for the floor to replace the foam and carpet that was in the GL. 
Adding the foil to the insides of all the doors and sides made a huge difference in the sun as far as heat goes, since the van is the dove blue it gets plenty hot in the sun.
I painted the pop top bright white and used a thin carpet on the inside and it stays plenty cool in the sun. The canvas heats up more than the top now. 

In looking at the pop top / cold weather issue further it looks to me like the way to go is to fabricate 3 pieces of weatherproof fabric for the two sides and front and attach them permanently to the underside along the fiberglass.  
If you could use a high tech fabric like a Gore-Tex or equal you could easily make the material lightweight and flexible enough to store the pieces rolled up and tied to the "inside"
of the pop top edge. 

You could simply raise the top a bit and untie the fabric and attach it to the front of the luggage carrier and edges of the rain gutter. It would zip together on the two front corners. 

Its too bad the replacement side canvas we buy do not have opening side screens like the front screen has. This would allow you to reach out the sides to work at that area.  A storm cover should have side vent and front vents or windows in it . Essentially as I had posted earlier like putting your pop top in a winter Arctic The North Face tent . 

Again, this would be really cool in that you could make the whole front luggage area a vestibule for inside storage while winter camping. 

If I had a upholstery sewing machine I would tackle this one myself. 

If anybody is interested in developing this type of "pop top boot / bad weather boot" please p-mail me and perhaps we can develop something together. 

With respect to interior heating I have an idea that I have been slowly working on that I want to share but first things first!. 

One must be EXTREMELY careful when working with home made designs, propane and carbon monoxide!  I also feel there is a fantastic group of knowledgeable folks here on the list that come up with all kinds of incredible fixes, upgrades, ideas, and its what makes these vanagons and the group so darn much  fun.  There ARE some decent heaters avail like the propex, the vented cats etc, I would like to see a SAFE "Popular Mechanics / build your own" design for us that is simple, inexpensive to build (perhaps using off the shelf parts), works well, and is totally safe from these portable units that vent CM or deplete oxy from the cabin. I personally do not feel VW or any RV manufacturer would ever install a "non vented" heater as factory equipment because of the potential of building up CM or depleting oxygen in the cabin. I intend to use a CM detector with any designs I use in my rig to be safe. 

From what I have seen and considered the idea of using a small propane lantern with a proper vent to the outside and thermocouple to make sure if it goes out it shuts off, has potential.
The other idea I have is equipping one of the burners on the westy stove with a thermocouple (like the fridge) and using small heat exchanger with a vent out the window.  
I would like the unit to be portable and would set up near the sink.  

So far the small propane lantern seems to me to show a heat source that is about right for the small size of the vanagon and they do burn white hot at the mantle which I believe is even cleaner burning than the temps cats burn at. Obviously a secure fail safe venting and operation needs to be designed into any plan.   Any ideas out there, I would love to see more developed along this line. 

Be safe!

Happy winter camping!


Doug