Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:14:39 +0000
Reply-To: kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: AMC Heads (My views)
This horse has been dead from the start as far as I am concerned. The only problem I have had is folks digging him up and trying to ride him around in a parade. The logic you are using to suggest the valves in the heads you are selling are superior to the ones that are coming with the AMC/Marnal heads is:
1. They are not the same valves as the ones being installed by Marnal.
How do you know? What valves are in the heads that are coming directly from Spain?
2. You have had no complaints from customers who are installing the AMC heads you are selling.
I am in the same situation. So your logic on this point applies to me as well.
I am not trying to cast doubt upon anyone's product or integrity. I am only sharing my own experiences that this whole issue is a non-issue. It is only when folks try to make it into a make it or break it issue for purchasing heads that I get frustrated. I would feel much more comfortable with you saying, "My heads are cheaper, buy them from me." I would have no problem with that at all. It is when you say they are superior (or Go Westy for that matter) that I take issue. If you can prove it, please do so.
Hope you don't take this personally as it is not meant as an attack.
Ken Wilford
www.vanagain.com
John 3:16
-------------- Original message --------------
> > I called Marnal today and spoke with the salesman there.
> > This is the supplier that my heads come from before they
> > trickle down to all of the big wholesalers. They confirmed
> > that they do get the AMC heads bare
> > into their warehouse and then install the valves, springs, etc. He
> > said that they use an Italian valve made by a company called
> > Ivam. You can check out their website at the link below.
> > http://www.paginegialle.it/ivam
> >
> > He said about eight years ago they had problems with valves
> > but they have since changed suppliers for the valves. He
> > said that they sold around 1000 of the waterboxer cylinder
> > heads last year in the US and had no major issues with the valves.
> >
> > All of this info took me one phone call and about 5 mins to
> > get. Just FYI.
>
>
>
> I deal with Marnal myself, and as a rule have not had problems with other
> things they sell. I do not want to badmouth Marnal. They sell many good
> quality products (as well as some promotionally-priced Brazilian parts that
> I choose not to sell) and have been in business a long time. But still, I do
> not buy the Vanagon heads from them, for the reasons that I have outlined.
>
> Ivams are decent valves, from what Leonard tells me. He has not had any
> problems with AMC heads that used Ivam valves. But as I noted in my last
> email, of the four seemingly identical brand new AMC heads that AVP received
> within the last FEW WEEKS - not eight years ago, but a few weeks ago - only
> two turned out to have Ivam valves when Leonard took them apart. To
> reiterate, Leonard could not say that the valves on the other two heads were
> necessarily bad - he replaced them just to be on the safe side - but he
> could say that they were not Ivams.
>
> Also, bear in mind that if a valve fails, it may not happen during the
> warranty period. If it failed after, say, 20,000 miles, it would be a
> non-warranty failure and would not be returned to the distributor (to be
> identified as a "major issue").
>
> Again, I cannot state definitively that there is a current problem, but
> neither can I feel 100 percent confident that there is not. And I am not
> alone in leaning toward caution; several rebuilders (notably AVP, Boston
> Bob, GoWesty's rebuilder) are also playing it safe and replacing the valves
> right away before installing the heads. They are doing this because they
> have experienced problems far more recently than eight years ago.
>
> But we are severely beating a very dead horse. What is the downside to
> paying LESS money for actual European built heads that have not had any
> reports of issues?
>
> - Ron Salmon
> The Bus Depot, Inc.
> www.busdepot.com
> (215) 234-VWVW
>
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