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Date:         Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:51:08 -0700
Reply-To:     Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM>
Subject:      Re: jack, costs
In-Reply-To:  <417012CB.3840.B2B998@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think you missed the major gist of Ben's email, the subtle racial references are more the problem, than complaints about quality. And ANY statement that degrades another based on race, belief, appearance, etc. is more than just "sometimes unfortunate"... it is always WRONG.

As for quality: - I've seen crap from China - I've seen crap from Germany - I've seen crap from the USA

I've also seen some fantastic items from China, from Germany, and from the USA.

Remember, it's not the culture, it's the people who operate the businesses who decide quality. And most of the time, it's the markets that determine quality.

BTW: BenT has been on this list for quite some time and I'm fairly certain he knows more than most what's allowed on Frydayes...

Cheers All,

Jeff

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:11 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: jack, costs

While I respect your concern regarding "subtle racial references", I think you're mistaken. There's nothing racial about a concern about the sometimes crappy quality which comes from (your choice of country), although I agree that terminology is sometimes unfortunate.

I think your accuracy needs some attention, too. The statement, "myth of poor Japanese quality was perpetrated by the Defense Department" is incorrect. I'm curious where you picked up that piece of mythology. I don't remember the DOD ever telling me how junky the stuff was; not necessary, I saw it with my own eyes.

And my Swiss knives were made in Switzerland although I made the mistake of buying a cheap copy once, made in China. The steel will not hold an edge so it sits in a drawer as a reminder that buying cheap doesn't pay.

The Japanese didn't import "Arasaki rifles and Mitsubishi Zeros" into the U.S. unless you want to count Pearl Harbor. The big problems with quality involved imports during the years right after the war. Most of the stuff was junk. Cheap. But junk. Yes, there are reasons why that was but it's another subject.

Also another subject, but it was an American who went over and helped the Japanese get their quality under control. Unfortunately, Duran wasn't able to do the same with American industry. The rest is history. If imports from China follow the same pattern, I'd expect the the quality to gradually improve as they lock down the markets. Probably already happening.

My point: We're discussing quality. Don't read something else into it.

You may be unaware that there is a tradition on the list to diverge from pure Vanagon discussion on Fridays. This is Friday.

Your English is fine, probably better than mine.

//Jack

Date sent: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:13:50 -0700 Send reply to: BenT <syncro@GMAIL.COM> From: BenT <syncro@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: jack, costs To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM

> OK, people. Since TomC is probably too busy attending to all things > Vanagon I feel a need to respectfully ask you guys to stop injecting > subtle racial references to this quality control issue. > > I understand that most of you do not realize that saying things like > "... Chinaland..." is almost as bad as the referring to the people > from that region in the same tone. Suggesting the Chinese should stick > to making bamboo baskets.. etc. that's really just plain unacceptable. > Heck, even the reference to "krautboyz" was not appropriate. Further, > the myth of poor Japanese quality was perpetrated by the Defense > Department during a time of war. Those Arasaki rifles and Mitsubishi > Zeros were manufactured to the same level as anything the west was > putting out during the era. > > So please, please, please. Stop now. Enough is enough. > > Poor quality is reserved to the third world as many of you know. For > the most part, you get what you pay for. The only reason this certain > Asian country is getting a lot of attention is because so many > products are coming out of there. The crappy stuff is remembered and > discussed by most. There is rarely any discussion about your > appliances built there which are buzzing away somewhere in your homes. > No discussion about that souvenir you bought from Paris with the tiny > (made in XXXXX). That name sure didn't sound French. Have looked where > your Swiss Army knife is made in? > > My point (no pun intended) is: > > Let's get back to Vanagons. I promise not call you guys a bunch > VW-hugging rainbow necks. If my my English is incorrect, please excuse > me as it is my second language. > > Respectfully Yours, > Benjamin E.S. Tan > just another vanagon fan


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