Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:24:23 EDT
Reply-To: JordanVw@AOL.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: JordanVw@AOL.COM
Subject: POPTOP YOUR RIDE.. Re: Installing a pop-top on a non-pop top EASY
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ok.. thats it.. have y'all heard of "Pimp your Ride" on MTV (the network
that used to play Music Videos)
this is Poptop Your Ride... if anyone wants a poptop added to their
passenger van the easy, affordable and most practical way, i'll volunteer my time
and tools and we'll bust this suckah out in ONE WEEKEND... (not one weedend)
...WITH a functional upper bunk! with no more than a drill, jigsaw, and
socketwrench.. to prove my point that this can be done aesthetically pleasing and
functional in a short period of time with little expense and minimal tools.
you supply the poptop (i know where one is FS, not mine tho) and document the
installation on a website. top up or down it will look like a genuine westy
from the outside. the hinges will be bolted to the roof at the rear with a
reinforcement bracket drilled out to match hinge holes, placed under and over
the roof sheetmetal to beef up the sheetmetal. the outside reinforcement bracket
can be cut so it makes the hinges sit straight - but it really isnt a big
issue as the hinges are pretty flexible,and have play in them (extend them
totally, you can see what i mean) so weather they sit on a slight angle isnt going
to make the top's ability to be raised and lowered any different.. the hole
will be cut in the roof about the size of a stock sunroof hole between B and C
roof supports. the poptop strut/lift bar will be bolted to "L" angle iron
brackets neatly added between B and C pillar roof supports (no supports are cut
in this conversion).. the roof hole will be trimmed with U-channel poptop
weatherstripping, with stock headliner neatly tucked under weatherstripping to
give it a finished tidy look.. stock pass van rear air conditioning can be
retained, only center tunnel needs to be removed, a/c will still blow out the rear,
and switch wires can be relocated to behind side paneling. (you lose the a/c
if you do it the "hard way") the upper bunk will use the stock westy
mattresses..but willl consist of a custom plywood sleeping platform that rests on the
apex of the passenger van roof , with wood supports at each side that match the
height of the roofline, so its level. there will be a second section (either
loose, or hinged) that will slide or fold out to cover roof hole when upper
bed is in use.. the poptop WILL close with the plywood sleeping platform and
stock foam in place, tho you cant store crap up there like tables and junk while
the top is down like you can in a real westy (which is actually a good
thing..no stored junk to fall out of the poptop when you slam the brakes on)..
anyway, the stock vanagon roof pillar supports will hold the weight
sufficiently..you can jump up and down like crazy on a passenger van roof (ive done it--(fun
with parts vans before they get hauled off) :<) and the worst that will happen
is that you will dimple the sheetmetal between supports..the supports themself
are very strong. poptop luggage rack and canvas holddown strips and poptop
latch plate screw/bolt down just like they do in a actual westy. other than
that its cake. yes cake!
that french website (if we are talking about the same french website here) is
done by lister pedro dos santo's friend who did the conversion with him. they
live in Quebec and he bought that top you see pictured, from me. he came
down to PA with 5 french speaking buddies and they cut the whole roof off my
parts westy and strapped it to the roof of pedro's 91 GL (yea whole roof, pillars
and all --heavy as hell) on a dippy little roof rack that was way too small
for it and drove all the way back to canada like that.. i was amazed the
friggin thing didnt fall off on the highway and kill someone... :<) at any rate
i told him about both ways to do it.. he chose the "hard" way.. and the end
result looks great. but it took alot of time .. and im sure it cost him some
pretty maple leaf pennies.
the job Karl and i did (and i assume mark drillock did, tho i have never seen
his) looked great. hardly a "hack job". looked very professional and he
always got alot of compliments on it. those of you who used to go to Tom Forhan's
mid atlantic bus club christmas party can vouch for that..he had taken it
down there quite a few times, before he sold it, bought a eurovan, moved, and
doesnt monitor the vanagon list much anymore i believe. .. i wish i knew its
whereabouts now, id take some better pics..
anyway like i said before there is no right way or wrong way. you can make
any modification look and work well if there is attention to detail.
i put a carat interior and bodykit on my 84 wolfsburg van. does that mean
its half assed or hacked? hardly..i did a really nice job and it looks almost
stock. there are tons of other mods ive done to my van also, and will continue
to do more. these vans are fun to modify and improve, and i dont think
anyone should be told which way is "better' when they both will work just fine.
to each his own..
no flames doug..your job looks great.. so did Karls' i must say... :<)
chris
In a message dated 10/21/04 4:19:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
vanagon@ASTOUND.NET writes:
> Having done this job to my 87 syncro GL (non-westy) as part of my westy
> conversion, I can tell everyone, that to do it RIGHT its a BIG job indeed.
> You better be handy with metal and have a good assortment of tools, lots of
> know-how and lots of time, and I mean weeks.
>
> I have to offer a big THANK YOU to Stuart Black for his work on posting
> detailed pics of his conversion.
> It helped me immensely to understand the metal designs of both tops and what
> needed to be done to do the transplant.
> There is also a French website that shows a professional body shop that did
> the job as a professional weld in, probably as close to a factory job as one
> could do.
> This site was also very helpful to me to see how they dealt with the various
> issues.
>
> To do the pop top conversion and NOT do the upper bunk as the factory
> featured it, to me, would be taking away the main reason I wanted a pop top
> on my syncro. (storage while camped and a place to throw some nieces or
> nephews or a buddy for an overnighter and place for me to sleep on warm
> summer campouts)
> I may decide to sell it to someday too, and wanted to show the conversion
> was done correctly with all the attributes of the full pop top.
>
> There are 3 main areas that become issues on this conversion.
>
> The rear pop top support hinges on the westy bolt to a "flat" area molded
> into the roof skin. The non-westy van has a curved roofline where the hinges
> are going to go.
> There is also a structural support under the roof skin in this area on the
> westy, to transfer the load on the hinges down to the structurally sound
> roof frame rails.
> (very strong 1/8 th inch thick steel support rail that runs around the
> perimeter of the vanagon at the level of the rain gutter)
> The HACKED method of just screwing down the rear support hinges through the
> curved roof metal to whatever you can grab or an inserted plate under the
> skin is SLAMMIN IMHO.
> There is a fair amount of weight resting on the rear hinges if all you have
> to support that weight under the rear hinge is the roof skin itself you are
> asking for trouble. Any movement of the top, raising and lowering, wind /
> snow loads, racks, canoes, etc will eventually flex the thin sheet metal of
> the roof skin and fatigue the metal there. You will also still have the
> issue of trying to bolt down the hinge which has a flat bottom to a curved
> roofline. This will kick your hinges out at an angle rather attaching
> vertically.
>
> Another issue is the "bed rail" this is a very thin piece of metal that
> forms a "ledge" that supports the rear plywood bed and front fold out
> section for the upper bunk. This "ledge" is only on the westy. It is very
> securely welded in almost a hundred places to the main roof support rail.
> You either need to custom fab your own bed rail or remove the rail
> carefully from the donor van and attach to the other van. (big job).
>
> The third and final main issue is the center support across the middle of
> the van. This support is arched in the non-westy and totally flat and very
> reinforced for additional strength in the westy. You cannot get the upper
> bunk to lie flat on the arched support because the arc is almost 2-3 inches
> higher in the middle over a flat run across the van. In order to use the
> middle westy support you need to graft in the ends where both the westy and
> non-westy cross braces make contact with the main roof support rails . This
> is where it gets tricky, because you cannot take the entire vanagon apart
> and rebuild it from scratch. (well I thought about that too) You need to
> design a way to tie in to the converted vans roof support rails and do it in
> such a way that you keep as much of the original design of the westy for the
> cross brace.
>
> Interesting thing about the westy cross support brace, it is an extremely
> well designed brace as it free spans over 4 feet and will support hundreds
> of pounds. Ti does a good job of transferring the load side supports. Both
> the rear plywood section as well as the front fold out section for the upper
> bunk depend mainly on this center support beam. There is a "trim" piece that
> is also an integral part of the support beam it is that piece that goes on
> under the beam it is held by a lip on the front edge which engages to the
> edge of the beam and four screws on the back which screw into "T" nuts in
> the rear plywood. It has a rubber bumper strip to protect your head. This
> "trim" substantially reinforces the center support beam when it is secured
> in with the plywood. It is a big mistake to leave it out and put large loads
> up on the bunk.
>
> This is a project that can certainly be done. You will be asking yourself
> many times during the completion "what was I thinking?" and saying things
> like "I am such an idiot!, why did I take on a project like this?"
>
> There are so many vanagons on the road that would benefit greatly and
> practical value increased to go camping in them, by the addition of the pop
> top and upper bunk. I know that installing the pop top to my syncro totally
> changed the way I felt about the van, it literally became a "camper" instead
> of a GL 7 pass plain jane vanagon. I cannot think of a single other project
> I have done to the van that changed the way I felt about and its usefulness
> as much.
>
> There seems to be many pop tops in wrecking yards that are still in decent
> shape. I paid a hundred bucks for the whole roof section from a westy from
> my local junk yard. I got the complete upper bunk and all the trim complete
> with the parcel tray and most of the curtains.
>
> If you have a local body shop friend who could help you out with the heavy
> duty work and you could do all the minor stuff you may be able to save some
> money and do most of it yourself.
>
> I have considered putting a book together on how to do this and selling it
> on e/bay like the guy with the dual battery set up is doing today. My
> feeling is that most folks out there once they realize how much work it
> takes and tools and know-how would pass on the project.
>
> I believe if you could get a professional body shop to do this conversion
> for you it would be in the range of $3000 to $4000
>
> Save the vanagons
>
> Doug
>
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