Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:29:38 -0700
Reply-To: Doug in Calif <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Doug in Calif <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
Subject: Re: POPTOP YOUR RIDE.. Re: Installing a pop-top on a non-pop top
EASY
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Chris,
Sounds good to me!. I am in full support of making use of those pop tops in the recycle yards. May they soon see campgrounds again. My syncro is still smiling about learning it now gets to be a westy! May we keep the canvas makers like Bus Depot busy keeping us in new canvas with all the pop top rigs on the road. Perhaps with more interest / owners of the pop top community will design or help me design a slick "foul weather boot" for the top as I have posted about.
I would love to see a the vanagon group come up with a detailed good way to do these conversions that does not hinder the resale value or desirability of the van after its done. There is great power in the many minds here on the list. I know I have learned a TON.
It is my belief that there seems to be a wide spectrum of what folks are willing to accept with regard to doing these top conversions. I know there is a buyer for every vanagon somewhere, VWs seem to have that life long allure that they were built so well that somebody will always (hopefully) want to put in a bit of effort and money to get em back on the road. Especially you diesel dudes, OMG.
I recently read an archive thread about the "thermocouple" as I am working on a home grown propane heater for my syncro. I needed to know how the thermocouple worked because I was clueless. Well it turns out it is a very tiny electro magnet and it "holds" the valve open with 30 millivolts from the current from heating to types of metal together. The member said "talk about getting the MOST from the LEAST. I like that philosophy! In my mind when I see a neighbor pull out of his driveway with his 40ft motor coach towing his jeep Cherokee, and its just him in there I think good grief!. That's why I love the vanagons so much they get the job done and really seem to not ask for much for what they can do.
With respect to the pop top conversion I say "get the most bang for the least amount bucks, time and effort" Get those tops out of the wrecking yards before they crush em as the one now on my syncro would have ended up shortly if I had not rescued it.
If you have a truly "acceptable" way that the backyard mechanic can pull it off clean. I say its a HUGE contribution.
I have to say I DID NOT see that from the conversion you guys posted on the website, or the information you provided when I was searching and asking you about it.
I did not get any "details" from you or anything even close to the post I submitted yesterday about what is involved in this conversion.
Stuart Black's website and the french site offered the best information avail I could find and I searched hard and long about it.
I cannot speak for the entire vanagon community, so I do not know how "everybody" would feel about what is "acceptable".
I have a vanagon buddy who has done quite a few westy conversions of different sorts. He has done a westy top and now feels he likes to put the country homes tops on the vans he builds because its easier.
Having never seen the CH top up close I went over to check it out. It does the job for sure.Its a big improvement over the metal vanagon roof inside. He did a nice job of installing it. Its pretty easy to do by comparison.
The bottom line for me is I would never do one or want a van with one because I really like the westy top too much and by comparison I see a big difference.
He sold it to a guy who takes it camping with his kids and the guy is totally happy with it.
Mark made the point yesterday that not everybody cares about the upper bunk anyway. I agree.
The real bottom line about these is the more ideas and input into this topic the closer we can get it to a point where when folks do decide to take the jigsaw to the roof it will hopefully turn out well and OTHER folks will still want the van. It should be a nice looking / safe, conversion. There certainly needs to me more info available on the "how to's" of this conversion.
I hope listmembers chime in about their experiences, archives have nothing until just this week about it. Those who are willing to tackle this project will benefit greatly. Everybody (kind of) wants a westy They are one of the coolest designed vehicles on the road today, some 20years later. They are also kind of in short supply compared to the standard 7 pass out there.There are currently now getting to be lots of parts around pretty cheap. The TASTEFULLY modified ones are the best and most interesting to me of all.
I am anxious to see the result of your "weekends" efforts Chris!
SHOW ME THE COZY !!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: JordanVw@aol.com
To: vanagon@astound.net ; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:24 AM
Subject: POPTOP YOUR RIDE.. Re: Installing a pop-top on a non-pop top EASY
ok.. thats it.. have y'all heard of "Pimp your Ride" on MTV (the network that used to play Music Videos)
this is Poptop Your Ride... if anyone wants a poptop added to their passenger van the easy, affordable and most practical way, i'll volunteer my time and tools and we'll bust this suckah out in ONE WEEKEND... (not one weedend) ...WITH a functional upper bunk! with no more than a drill, jigsaw, and socketwrench.. to prove my point that this can be done aesthetically pleasing and functional in a short period of time with little expense and minimal tools. you supply the poptop (i know where one is FS, not mine tho) and document the installation on a website. top up or down it will look like a genuine westy from the outside. the hinges will be bolted to the roof at the rear with a reinforcement bracket drilled out to match hinge holes, placed under and over the roof sheetmetal to beef up the sheetmetal. the outside reinforcement bracket can be cut so it makes the hinges sit straight - but it really isnt a big issue as the hinges are pretty flexible,and have play in them (extend them totally, you can see what i mean) so weather they sit on a slight angle isnt going to make the top's ability to be raised and lowered any different.. the hole will be cut in the roof about the size of a stock sunroof hole between B and C roof supports. the poptop strut/lift bar will be bolted to "L" angle iron brackets neatly added between B and C pillar roof supports (no supports are cut in this conversion).. the roof hole will be trimmed with U-channel poptop weatherstripping, with stock headliner neatly tucked under weatherstripping to give it a finished tidy look.. stock pass van rear air conditioning can be retained, only center tunnel needs to be removed, a/c will still blow out the rear, and switch wires can be relocated to behind side paneling. (you lose the a/c if you do it the "hard way") the upper bunk will use the stock westy mattresses..but willl consist of a custom plywood sleeping platform that rests on the apex of the passenger van roof , with wood supports at each side that match the height of the roofline, so its level. there will be a second section (either loose, or hinged) that will slide or fold out to cover roof hole when upper bed is in use.. the poptop WILL close with the plywood sleeping platform and stock foam in place, tho you cant store crap up there like tables and junk while the top is down like you can in a real westy (which is actually a good thing..no stored junk to fall out of the poptop when you slam the brakes on).. anyway, the stock vanagon roof pillar supports will hold the weight sufficiently..you can jump up and down like crazy on a passenger van roof (ive done it--(fun with parts vans before they get hauled off) :<) and the worst that will happen is that you will dimple the sheetmetal between supports..the supports themself are very strong. poptop luggage rack and canvas holddown strips and poptop latch plate screw/bolt down just like they do in a actual westy. other than that its cake. yes cake!
that french website (if we are talking about the same french website here) is done by lister pedro dos santo's friend who did the conversion with him. they live in Quebec and he bought that top you see pictured, from me. he came down to PA with 5 french speaking buddies and they cut the whole roof off my parts westy and strapped it to the roof of pedro's 91 GL (yea whole roof, pillars and all --heavy as hell) on a dippy little roof rack that was way too small for it and drove all the way back to canada like that.. i was amazed the friggin thing didnt fall off on the highway and kill someone... :<) at any rate i told him about both ways to do it.. he chose the "hard" way.. and the end result looks great. but it took alot of time .. and im sure it cost him some pretty maple leaf pennies.
the job Karl and i did (and i assume mark drillock did, tho i have never seen his) looked great. hardly a "hack job". looked very professional and he always got alot of compliments on it. those of you who used to go to Tom Forhan's mid atlantic bus club christmas party can vouch for that..he had taken it down there quite a few times, before he sold it, bought a eurovan, moved, and doesnt monitor the vanagon list much anymore i believe. .. i wish i knew its whereabouts now, id take some better pics..
anyway like i said before there is no right way or wrong way. you can make any modification look and work well if there is attention to detail.
i put a carat interior and bodykit on my 84 wolfsburg van. does that mean its half assed or hacked? hardly..i did a really nice job and it looks almost stock. there are tons of other mods ive done to my van also, and will continue to do more. these vans are fun to modify and improve, and i dont think anyone should be told which way is "better' when they both will work just fine. to each his own..
no flames doug..your job looks great.. so did Karls' i must say... :<)
chris
