Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:44:13 -0800
Reply-To: Jake Beaulieu <jake_beaulieu@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jake Beaulieu <jake_beaulieu@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Lubing CV Joints, Struck Oil... more questions
In-Reply-To: <20041114235342.8451.qmail@web11205.mail.yahoo.com>
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Tom Young put together an excellent write up for this procedure. The procedure includes replacing the oil seals as well as the caps. Might as well while your in there. You can find the write up by searching for "flange seals". For your convenience I have pasted a copy of the write up below.
Good luck. It really isn't a bad job, if you don't strip out the CV bolts.
Jake
Archived message begins here:
Since I just did this procedure today and it's fresh in my
mind, I thought I'd write it up just to give someone a shot
of finding it in the archives.
The "special" tools I used on this job, and that I'd advise
you have before attempting it are:
External circlip pliers
3" puller
seal remover (that wicked-looking double-hooked tool)
a LARGE washer slightly bigger that the oil seal
an even LARGER washer, slightly smaller than the
flange of the drive flange
a long 10mm x 1.5 bolt, and nut.
The drive flange oil seals live in the transmission, inboard
of the drive flanges themselves. If you remove an inner CV
joint and find its grease has obviously been contaminated
with transmission oil, you're a candidate for this
procedure.
The Clymer manual doesn't mention the R & R of the drive
flange oil seals. The Haynes manual does cover this, but
only as part of a complete disassembly / assembly of the
transmission. Bentley covers the removal and installation
of the seals in its usual laconic fashion.
I had the engine out and the drive shafts removed when I did
this, and I shudder to think of doing the job with the
engine in place and the drive shafts wired up out of the
way. Of course I was lying under the car in the driveway
and if you happen to have a hydraulic lift and can stand
under the car, then be my guest.
When you look at the drive flange you should see a black /
blue / whatever plastic or rubber covered metal cap in the
center of the flange. You first need to remove this cap,
which you can only do by destroying it, so put these caps on
your shopping list. Gouge at it with a screwdriver or awl
until it pops out of the flange.
Next, you have to remove a circlip that rides in a groove of
the side gear (that's that little "axle" end you're looking
at.) If you've always managed to remove these things with a
pair of screwdrivers or something of that ilk, more power to
you, but I found I had a tough enough time using my circlip
pliers. The circlip's down in that grove so it's not
exactly easy to get at and it's a STRONG circlip. I'd
advise buying those circlip pliers.
After the circlip is out remove the spring washer which is
sitting under the circlip.
You're now ready to remove the drive flange itself.
After all these years of not owning a puller and making do
with pry bars and other makeshift items, I finally broke
down and bought one of those $4.99 three inch pullers to
remove the shaft. The plastic lock ring is right under the
drive shaft, so I couldn't find a good place to pry where I
wasn't in danger of damaging the lock ring.
Screw a short 10mm x 1.5 bolt into the end of the side gear,
put the point of the puller on the head of the bolt, put the
two arms of the puller on the drive shaft flange, and turn
the bolt of the puller; the drive shaft should come right
off.
Next, remove the two phillips head screws that hold the
plastic lock ring in place, and remove the lock ring.
The seal is now exposed, ready to be removed in the usual
manner of these things, that is, one way or the other you
destroy it to remove it. I know screwdrivers and other
traditional levers are often used to remove oil seals off
all sorts, and I suspect you can use these tools here, too.
Lying on my back under the transmission I was glad I had my
seal puller, and it was STILL a b*tch to get the seal out;
it's in there TIGHT! The adjusting ring that you're prying
on to get the seal out seems to be made of fairly soft
material, and I noticed that the head of the seal puller
made some small "dents" in the ring. Try and find little
pieces of wood or something to put under the adjusting ring.
With the seal out, clean everything up and oil the new seal.
The new seal can be tapped in place like most seals are, but
since the end of the side gear will take a 10mm x 1.5 bolt I
used a bolt, a nut, a LARGE washer and a pipe coupling to
"press" the seal into place. Slick!!
Reassembly is, as they say, the reverse of assembly.
The drive flange needs to be pressed back on the side gear;
I used the real large washer, a pipe coupling, the 10mm nut
and the 10mm x 1.5 bolt screwed into the end of the side
gear to get the flange back into place.
The spring washer prevents the circlip from fully seating
into the grove in the end of the side gear, so use a
screwdriver and hammer, a piece of pipe of the appropriate
size, or some other tool to make sure the circlip is fully
seated in the grove. I have a pair of needle nose vice grip
pliers that I used to squeeze the circlip back into place.
Finally, put your new cap back into place in the end of the
drive flange. If there's anything special about getting
these plugs seated I wouldn't know, since my FLAPS gave me
the wrong caps!! I'll go get the right ones tomorrow.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Young young@sherlock.SIMS.Berkeley.EDU
Lafayette, CA 94549 '81 Vanagon
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Rule <manikmike@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
Gadzooks, I just found the same sort of goop this afternoon! I did not notice anything loose or worn inside that flange, but didn't look too hard either...
Q's:
Has anyone web-posted a walk-thru of working with these caps?
If not, does anyone know how these are /removed replaced? Bentley's does not seem too specific, but I may be missing the proper section...
Is it being suggested that the cap alone seals the tranny (at that point of the unit)?
If so, these should naturally be replaced outright with new once removed?
Bentley's shows a "circlip" and "wavy spring washer" inside/behind the cap- are these part of sealing at the flanges, and thus should be replaced as well? (which may or may not require the Bentley-suggested specialized VW-type tools)
Thanks,
Mike
Zoran Mladen wrote:
This is a common problem. There is a seal, actually more of a cap, inside the hub. If you take off the axle, you will see it. One of two things happen. Either this cap falls out, or in the case of worn cv joints, the axle moves back and forth and rubs a hole in the cap. The cap prevents the tranny oil from coming out.
This is an excellent opportunity for you to remove the axle, completely clean both cv joints, repack them, fix the cap issue, and re-install.
Z
"Tom L. Salicos" wrote:
I bought VolksCafe's CV lube kit and was pushing extra grease into the CV joints. On one side in the rear, at the transmission, black oil poured out. About half a cup. I didn't wait to see if it would drain the transmission, just tie-wrapped it back tight. I'll be taking Ravenous to my mechanic this week prior to my annual 2500 mile Thanksgiving Day visit to my parents' place (hopefully driving).
How unusual is this? Is it normal to have an accumulation of oil in the boot, or might I be in deep shinola here? I didn't see an "oil seal" in the Bentley, just an 'O' ring. Also, I have not noticed any oil dripping under the van, 'cept for one or two drops after hard driving.
What are the chances this is repairable on the vehicle? I am planning on a transmission rebuild next summer and would really like to put off the big expense.
Tom Salicos
'87 Westy Syncro
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