Date:         Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:13:54 -0800
Reply-To:     jbange <hfinn@INGRATES.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         jbange <hfinn@INGRATES.NET>
Subject:      Re: keys
In-Reply-To:  <BAY23-F28C18965CCF4ABF41E7A0BC6B60@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 06:02 AM 12/8/2004, you wrote:
>Again, there has been some mis-information given regarding gas cap keys and
>glove box keys.

Hey now, I was perfectly clear that I was only flying by the seat of my
pants about the gas cap! ;)

>   The earlier gas caps were not designed to use the ignition
>key, but used a smaller key.  Later Vanagons and Syncros used the ignition
>key, and used the same wafer positioning and geometry as other Vanagon
>locks.  In many cases, the gas cap actually requires the smaller X132 key,
>but will operate with the ignition key only becase the lock is so worn that
>actually anything will turn it that will go into it.

Hmmmm... I looked at the X132 blank and it's a lot shorter than the
ignition key. Are you saying they actually pinned the gas cap using the
same bitting as like the last 4 cuts on the ignition key, despite the fact
that it's a different keyway? Or do you think maybe his gas cap wafers are
so crudded up and/or worn that any key that goes in far enough will operate
the lock? Otherwise, I can't imagine why his old key would open it while
the Sears dupes don't. Incidentally, what year did they start making 'em
take the X110 key? Or was it one of those unknowable "as stock ran out at
whichever factory made that vehicle" situations?

>  The glove box does use
>the SC key series, which calls for ILCO 61VW.  I've never seen one of those
>locks that reqires NO KEY, therefore I must assume that someone has removed
>the wafers and springs from the lock mentioned in a previous post.

Heh. I've only worked on two Vanagon glove box locks, and it appears that
my particular experience has led me to draw the wrong conclusion. The first
was an '87 Syncro. Customer wanted dupes of the 2 keys he had: ignition and
glove box. The glove box key was smooth and uncut. We tried an uncut blank
in the lock and it opened. Later, when I got around to working on my '90, I
stuck a V68D blank in and it turned easily. I took that as an indication
that they perhaps had only the one "extra" wafer at the tip. I can't say
why the '87 Syncro worked with an uncut blank, but today I took my lock
apart to see what was up. Sure enough, there were 5 + 1 wafers in there,
just as you said. Turns out the key bitting for my glove box lock is 21121.
With 1 being essentially "no cut" and the wide tolerances of the lock being
such that 2 is "close enough to 1 to not matter", it's not surprising that
an uncut blank turned. It seems my assumptions and a statistically unlikely
lock bitting have conspired to make me look foolish. I did indeed speak in
error before.

>   As
>manufactured, the lock will not operate with an uncut blank.  There are no
>codes on those locks, but keys can be made by various methods.  That lock
>has a plastic housing, so if a locksmith wants to create a key by
>impressioning, he must be careful because excesive force will cause the lock
>to turn even though the key is incorrectly cut.

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend impressioning after looking at that lock. You'd
need someone who was REALLY careful to not end up with a buggered lock. And
pulling out the plug, there again you'd want someone REALLY careful who
won't break those plastic fingers off in the back. If you pull the face off
the lock body and remove the squeeze buttons you could probably eyeball the
wafers  with a good flashlight, I reckon, but there's really no easy way,
is there.