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Date:         Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:18:02 -0800
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jackin' Up The Van
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response

Since Stan is probably in bed right now like any sensible (is 'sensible vanagon owner' an oxymoron?) person would be, I'll jump in here and say: Al: you need to wake up and stop driving like an old grandmother... Either that or... hey, maybe you have a point- maybe it is the heat. It's as hot or hotter here than it is where Stan is (I believe) so perhaps you're on to something. You reckon that being mostly made out of rubber they're 'dry rotting' out here? Time for a survey? How many motor mounts have y'all gone through and under what general conditions/locations and on which vans? (Go out and check the ones yer runnin' now to see if they're bad before you answer.) Have you pro mechanics observed the same tendency as my local guy has, or no? Hmmm.

Cya, Robert

----- Original Message ----- From: "Al and Sue Brase" <albeeee@MCHSI.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:40 AM Subject: Re: Jackin' Up The Van

> Stan: > You need to chill out and start driving like a grown up.Either that or > maybe it's the heat of the air cooled plus Texas! > I've had 4 wbxers, 1 air cooled, longest for 14 years. total of 2 broken > mounts out of 20 possible positions. Both on the air cooled. Not that I > have been that easy on them. > Al Brase > > Stan Wilder wrote: > >>I replaced about 12 rear motor mounts on my 82 Westy in ten years of >>ownership. >>Some came from list vendors and some came from local VW Parts store. >>Spinning the rear wheels in wet weather or on icy streets is about the >>best >>way to tear them out. >> >>Stan Wilder >>Engine Ceramics >>214-352-4931 >>www.engineceramics.com >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robert Fisher" <refisher@MCHSI.COM> >>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:36 PM >>Subject: Re: Jackin' Up The Van >> >> >> >> >>>When I bought my van it had three broken motor mounts. Oddly enough, it >>>didn't seem to be affecting it much, but when I bought the full set to >>>replace them, the guy that owns the import repair/parts place I use told >>> >>> >>me >> >> >>>that just about every Vgon he'd worked on had at least two broken mounts >>>(the driver's side, IIRC). This guy is a VW specialist and owner from way >>>back. It was his theory that the mounts were typically under-designed and >>>that the torque of the flat four was too much for them over time. I've >>> >>> >>kept >> >> >>>an eye out for some sign of this since I've been on the list and haven't >>>seen much mention of it. For that matter, they're pretty well buried down >>>there and if broken mounts don't have any more effect in general than >>>they >>>did on mine, that might explain it. My point is, anyway, that if this is >>> >>> >>as >> >> >>>common as my guy thinks it is, it would make it just that much more >>>dangerous to lift the van by the engine, risking a sudden collapse. >>> >>>As for myself, I wouldn't lift any vehicle by any mounts, or anything >>>else >>>that wasn't part of the frame or so well attached to it as to make no >>>difference. My exception to this, I guess would be jacking from under the >>>wheel arms, which are of course designed to support at least part of the >>>weight of the vehicle. >>> >>>I have to jack the van up pretty high to make room for myself under >>>there, >>>and I've always used the engine crossbar when I wanted to lift the entire >>>rear. I've done this more times than I ever wanted to and it hasn't >>>distorted the bar at all. I just take it slow and easy when I lift it. I >>> >>> >>use >> >> >>>a bottle jack (sometimes with wood pieces) to move or support the engine >>> >>> >>or >> >> >>>tranny as needed once I have the jack stands in. >>> >>>If I'm feeling especially paranoid on taking a trip, I take a floor jack >>> >>> >>(I >> >> >>>have a large one and a small one) and two jacks stands, again mostly >>> >>> >>because >> >> >>>I have to get plenty of clearance to get under a vehicle safely. Never >>>really had too much of a space issue, as I try to travel light (my wife's >>>efforts at 'packing' notwithstanding). Under more 'normal' (mental) >>>circumstances, I just take the bottle jack in its case. Worked for me so >>>far... >>> >>>Cya, >>>Robert >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Greg Potts" <Greg@POTTSFAMILY.CA> >>>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:37 PM >>>Subject: Re: Jackin' Up The Van >>> >>> >>>Hi Al, >>> >>>4 of those rubber mounts would *probably* be plenty strong enough to >>>raise a vanagon. I know I have seen a bay raised without tearing them, >>>but only when they were fresh. I've seen stale mounts tear firsthand... >>>having a ton of bus shift on the jack is very dangerous. >>> >>>Happy trails, >>> >>>Greg Potts >>>Toronto, Ontario, Canada >>> >>>1973/74/79 Westfakia Conversion **Bob the Tomato** LY3H >>>1977 Sunroof Automatic L63H/L90D >>>http://www.pottsfamily.ca/westfakia >>>http://www.busesofthecorn.com >>> >>> >>>On 29-Dec-04, at 1:49 PM, Al and Sue Brase wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Actually, there are 4 rubber mounts there and each bigger than the old >>>>type 4 mounts. Waterboxers use the same parts. >>>>You guys are right, but that's the way I always do it. WAY easier. I >>>>just put a 2x4 on top of the jack and lift in the middle of the engine. >>>>Right where the strainer would be if it were a Type 1 engine. >>>>If they break, it is time to fix them. I've never had one break. BUT, >>>>I'd never forget that it could happen, resulting in sudden unintended >>>>downward acceleration of the vehicle. That's what jack stands are for. I >>>>put the jackstands on the outriggers ahead of the rear wheels, then I >>>>lower the jack slowly to put MOST of the weight on the jackstands. >>>>I then take a hammer and whack each stand to make sure all 4 legs are on >>>>the ground. Then I let the rest of the weght off the jack, but leave it >>>>right there. I then push as hard as I can on each corner. If it falls >>>>now, the jack will catch it. And I don't want any surprises while I'm >>>>underneath. (It seems like nearly every year, I hear on the local news >>>>of some amatuer mechanic crushed to death under his car- I don't love my >>>>Vanagons THAT much!) >>>>Al >>>> >>>>Greg Potts wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi Craig, >>>>> >>>>>I can't speak directly for the waterboxer (The seller now has the >>>>>title, and we should have it here in Toronto in 7-10 days) but I can >>>>>say that the 68-83.5 aircooled buses should NEVER be lifted by the >>>>>engine. >>>>> >>>>>In an aircooled bus or Vanagon the engine is connected to the yoke by >>>>>two rubber motor mounts that will tear if they're asked to support the >>>>>weight of the vehicle. >>>>> >>>>>I usually lift by the engine yoke, or by putting the jack under a >>>>>frame member. NOT from the engine. >>>>> >>>>>Happy trails, >>>>> >>>>>Greg Potts >>>>>Toronto, Ontario, Canada >>>>> >>>>>1973/74/79 Westfakia Conversion **Bob the Tomato** LY3H >>>>>1977 Sunroof Automatic L63H/L90D >>>>>http://www.pottsfamily.ca/westfakia >>>>>http://www.busesofthecorn.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On 29-Dec-04, at 12:07 PM, Craig Oda wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Isn't is possible to jack the van up by putting the jack plate under >>>>>>the engine block. I think this is what the "101 projects for your >>>>>>porsche" book recommends. It says to put a piece of wood or something >>>>>>under the engine block to avoid scratching it. Any thoughts on why >>>>>>this wouldn't work on a vanagon? >>>>>> >>>>>>-- Craig >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:16:32 -0600, Stan Wilder >>>>>><wilden1-1@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I've lifted mine many times from the steel engine yoke that the rear >>>>>>>motor >>>>>>>mounts screw to. >>>>>>>I've never bent one doing it this way but you could also lift from >>>>>>>the point >>>>>>>that the tranny mounts to the front crossbar. I've done this too but >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>it >> >> >>>>>>>seems to be about a balancing point and not as stable as the rear >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>lift >> >> >>>>>>>scenario. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Stan Wilder >>>>>>>Engine Ceramics >>>>>>>214-352-4931 >>>>>>>www.engineceramics.com >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Dave Chameides" <docproteus@EARTHLINK.NET> >>>>>>>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:56 PM >>>>>>>Subject: Jackin' Up The Van >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If I have a floor jack and want to raise the van from the center rear >>>>>>>without doing one side and then the other (I donšt want it to tip >>>>>>>side to >>>>>>>side right now) is there a center point that is strong enough to be >>>>>>>a jack >>>>>>>point (keeping in mind that as soon as I get the butt up in the air, >>>>>>>Išll be >>>>>>>jack standing the leafs and letting it rest back down on them). >>>>>>>Will the >>>>>>>transmission hold the weight? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>>>>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>>>>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004 >> >> >>


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