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Date:         Sat, 8 Jan 2005 22:35:01 -0800
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electrical pollution?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
              reply-type=response

Hmmm. I could read all that, but I think maybe I'll wait for the movie.

: ) Cya, Robert

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Electrical pollution?

> Since all energy of every form on this planet originates from the sun, > the ultimate energy solution is to emulate some form of solar energy. > That means atomic energy. > > Around 1986 or so, an article appeared in (I think) Popular Science > Magazine about backyard atomic power plants that ever home could have, > These were completely sealed, self contained units that would completely > power a home for all it's needs plus extra power to be fed back to the > public power grid. Such a home power plant was totally adequate to > supply charging power for electric cars. These power units could run a > single home for 20 years before having to deal with spent fuel cells. No > unit costs were given as I recall, but the feasibility of such units was > brought fourth as well as the expression of the availability of the > technology. It was very interesting to note that I was never able to > read anything more about this subject anywhere. > > > Such units would solve the oil dependency which is a finite supply. And > that finite supply is the basis of our dilemma. Our civilization is tied > to that oil for energy. It is a resource we need so survive at present, > and one we don't have enough of but other parts of the world do. We are > competing with the rest of the world for that natural resource - that > energy we must have to survive as a nation, and we as individuals in > that nation. I know if I can get gasoline, then I can't drive the > distance to work. If I can't work my job. If I don't work I can't get > paid. If I can't get paid I can buy food. If I have no food, then I > starve to death. This is the same principle as what the wild beasts of > the earth live on. Every animal on the planet is going to get it's > energy for it's own life from someone else. It does so by killing and > eating another creature to get the other creatures life energy for it's > own and it's offspring. Same with us. Little difference -- EXCEPT - we > have oil in the equation. And without it, we will be in big do-do in a > hurry. Civilization would collapse, chaos would reign, and thousands - > millions - would die of starvation. > > Wars are most often fought over resources, and oil is no exception. > Nations rise and fall on resource availability, consumption, and > ultimately - destruction or loss. Back in the 1800's and early part of > the 20th century, France was in big trouble. Their only major energy > resource was coal, and it was all used up nationwide. They had no > significant alternative energy supply. Then came the atomic bomb, then > the development of Atomic Power Plants. Atomic Power is what saved the > French butt!! They set about studying the various kinds of atomic power > plants in the world, settled on one type, and developed it to a very > fine degree, and built them all over. A single type, repeated many > times. Uniformity, a single standard. An operator can go from one to > another and expect to find things exactly the same in each. This ensures > a measure of safety. France now has power for the nation, and excess > power to sell to the European power grid. And, correct me if I am wrong, > they have never had an atomic accident at any of those plants. > > While France is enjoying it's electric power. It is still using oil. > It's vehicles use oil for energy. BUT, France has the capacity in place > now to switch over to alternative fuels. WE don't. > > War's over resources. It's coming. In Mexico today, a war of sorts is > already taking place. A poor country, lots of poverty, a scramble for > the people to leave their nation, get out from under the yoke of their > government and find a better living elsewhere. What is the problem > there? Two issues - resources and government. Every wonder why we are > having a "Browning of America" (I'm not trying to make this a racial > issue). Why the European immigration to America has slowed to a trickle > while waves of immigrants from Mexico and Pacific Rim countries are > coming to these shores? It has to do with resources and the ability or > lack thereof to participate in the riches of their own nations. In the > early days of America European immigrants came here to these wild shores > because things were so screwed up in their own countries they had no > place to go, no land, no wealth, nothing. Life was very hard. There were > times when one might be put in jail for some infraction or debt and stay > until death simply because there was no one to pay he debt. So the poor > Eruos, many indenturing themselves for 7 to 15 years, just to get a > chance to leave Europe for a chance at a better life. The wealthy who > owned the resources stayed at home. The wealthy were extracting their > wealth by way of the poor, and their wealth insulated them from the > poverty of the rest of the people. The misery was rampant, and the poor > worked to escape the situation. > > Today, the peoples of Europe have a greater equity and share in the > benefits of the larger community. They have no reason nor desire to > leave. This is not true of Mexico, some South American and some Pacific > Rim Countries. And their immigration is heavily dependent on the drive > for opportunity, and opportunity is based on resources, ultimately. Wo > what is happening in Mexico to drive people across our borders in ever > increasing numbers. Over-population, lack of resources, poverty, lack of > opportunity to improve their lives. Why all this. Many factors - > inadequate birth control (Mexico is largely a Catholic nation - and > birth control is anathema to them) so the population continues to > increase. Because of the large numbers of people, resources are being > used up at an alarming rate. The wealthy there are well insulated from > the poverty stricken. and the poor - like the early Euros, are desperate > to find a better life. So they flood into this country, increasing the > demand on our services, resources, etc, and reducing our quality of life > in the process. Like a plague of rats that get into the farmers crops > and consume them, they reduce the farmers ability to take care of his > own, the hoards from Mexico are doing the same to the rest of this > country. I don't like the fact that my government forces me to pay taxes > - take money from me that would otherwise go to supporting my own > family- and willingly gives it over to programs to support hoards of > foreigners fleeing their land because things are so bad there. > > Don't get me wrong, I have a great deal of sympathy for those that live > in such places and their struggles. And I really don't mind sharing a > bit to help my fellow human beings. I really couldn't live with myself > otherwise. But I don't like the way my government manages the matter. > But worse, I see a dreadful time coming in this nation if things don't > change, when the rats have eaten all the grain, and they are still > reproducing themselves in uncontrolled numbers. > > How does all this tie back to Vanagons and oil??? It's a matter of > resources, and finding alternatives. My Vanagon runs on gasoline. Though > there are a few other fuels available - gasohol, diesel, bio-diesel, > etc, none are as efficient as gasoline at this point. Ceramic engines > that can stand extreme temperatures using other fuels with more > calories/gram may be on the horizon but they are not here now. Oil > products are. Yet we have a shortage in this country. And we compete > with the world for it, and that competition is growing, and it is > costing us more and more. I believe we will soon reach a point where use > of oil is not economically sustainable, and that is tied directly to the > environment and the protection of all natural resources. If the global > warming we are currently experiencing is in fact connected to > environmental pollution by CO2, the use of oil is not economically > sustainable. It is insane to continue down the same path when > destruction is at the end of the path. The ultimate end of the global > warming trend - if it continues to the point of melting the polar ice > caps - it a total alteration of the worlds shorelines and agriculture > among other things, and that will result in famine of unbelievable > scale, and then to wars. . So, we had better get a grip, and find better > ways, and to hell with corporate profits. But a warning. Those whose > profits are made on the investments is such things as the oil industry - > are insulated for a time, and only for a time - from the misery that > will accompany the destruction of the environment. Eventually they to, > will pay a price for their greed. They can afford less profits for the > purpose of helping the environment for the sake of us all. They can also > afford less profits for equity of the people in the resources. > > It is amazing how few people today - especially in the USA - who have > any concept of the fact that our very existence is tied directly and > indirectly to plant life - both oceanic and land. And if the > environmental destruction does not come to a halt, we as a species are > in deep do-do. If we ever have a major break in the food chain, then we > are going to have a catastrophe that will make the asteroid destruction > of the dinosaurs look like a picnic. > > Safe, environmentally friendly, atomic power is ultimately the answer. > > Everyone gets really amped up over the ideal of atomic power or energy. > Too dangerous they say. Hmmm. I had a heated debate with my banker one > day over something I wanted to do. He pointedly told me he had been > informed that the material I wanted to use in my project was "dangerous" > and he couldn't loan with that condition. I was equally pointed, as > asked him if he would deliberately place his family in the presence of a > dangerous substance that has killed people, injured people, burned down > houses, etc. He replied "Of course not". I said "Of course you do. You > have natural gas in your home, and it has burned down more homes and > burned and killed more people than I can count, yet you expose your > family to it daily.!!" The point was conceded. I also said "You > transport your family in your car which tank is filled with gasoline, > and highly flammable liquid, capable of exploding!" And my point was > conceded. I also said the many things are dangerous, but highly useful > when individuals are properly trained and the material properly handled > and utilized. Natural gas, Propane, Chlorine gas, Gasoline, etc, etc, > etc, etc. So to can atomic energy. > > OK, Rant over. > > Regards to all, > > John Rodgers > 88 GL Driver > > jimt wrote: > >>On 1/7/05 7:29 PM, "Jim Felder" <felder@KNOLOGY.NET> wrote: >> >> >> >>>>Out here in the west ... The land of the coal fired power plants where >>>>even >>>>the hoover dam doesnΉt put out enough hydro. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I picked up an August 2004 Fortune in the Dr.'s office this summer and >>>read an interesting article about weaning our nation from oil. The >>>author stated that the argument that more efficient electric motors >>>would raise the cost of home appliances was counter-illustrated by an >>>improvement made to refrigerator motors in the 1970s. Refrigerators, he >>>went on to say (hope I remember this accurately) cost less now in real >>>dollars than they did then, not to mention adjusted dollars, and that >>>the savings in electricity from that improvement was equal to the >>>annual output of the hoover dam. >>> >>>Just thought you'd like to know! >>> >>>Jim >>> >>> >>> >>You probably got it right.. A breakthrough in refridgerator compressor >>technology in the early 70s that started to see production in late 70s and >>on to current mods is still hailed as one of the biggest breakthroughs in >>appliance technology. Further changes in the late 80s made it even >>better. >>An article I saw recently gave figures showing the same fridge using a >>value >>of 100 in early 1970s used 70 to 80 in the late 70s and into the 80s with >>the newest high power user fridges still in the 65 ranking against the >>early >>70s fridge. That is definitely a power saving issue. A sears store in 78 >>had a display in the store with a meter connected to a 2 year old model >>and >>a meter connected to their newest model of the same size fridge. Almost >>unbelievable difference in the meters. That kenmore is still sitting in >>my >>kitchen in use. Longest lived appliance I have ever purchased. >> >>•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• >>jimt >>Planned insanity is best. >>Remember that sanity is optional. >>http://www.tactical-bus.info (tech info) >>http://www.westydriver.com >> >> >> >>


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