Date:         Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:37:28 -0800
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Head treatment for pitting--flattening technique
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response

Basically the same here; I had neither the money nor the time (not that
that's changed much) to get into anything more involved, I just wanted to
get the thing on the road. Considering the shape the engine was in when I
bought the van, I knew I was in for a rebuild or replacement down the line
anyway. The original owner had taken great care of the thing (over 300,000
miles), then sold it to the second owner (a friend of the first) who really
liked it but was in way over his head mechanically. That guy then sold it to
a guy that had already drowned, mechanically.

This guy had a buddy work on the engine for beer (according to his son)
and... well... The beer guy's first attempt at stopping the head gasket leak
involved a large tube of red permatex. It took me a couple of hours just to
get that crap off before I could begin... er.. finish the teardown. When I
bought the van ($300, '87 GL; including the Bentley, yay!) the guy had
'removed' the passenger side head, pulling out the cylinders, breaking
piston rings, etc.

I didn't know this list existed at the time (and I had never worked on a VW
flat four before, my only other VW being a Rabbit diesel), so I did the work
with the Bentley and the advice and understanding of my local VW guy and the
machine shop dudes. I have to say that those guys went above and beyond
considering that they know I'm a DIY cheap bastard and they weren't gonna
get a lot of money out of me. On the other hand, they do know that they get
whatever business I have or can recommend in parts, etc. so there ya go.
Basically they're just willing to help a guy out, which I for one
appreciate.

Anyway- the machine shop guys went thru the head, reground the valve seats,
replace the internals, etc. and 'peened' the crack between the cylinders.
They told me then, and I've since heard it again here, that the sum total of
these circumstances means my heads are living on borrowed time. It's a damn
shame because from what I can decipher from the paperwork that was in the
van, the engine had less than 10,000 miles on a rebuild. The bottom end
looked pretty good to me, but then that may not mean much. However, it runs
solid and smooth as you could want- no lifter clatter, no nothing of all the
things I read about on here all the time, except for an occasional
fluctuation at idle, which smoothes out if you give it a little gas.

My wife loves the van, but I'm reluctant to take it on long trips. I don't
like the idea of maxing out the engine for long periods just to make 45 mph
up a mountain. Considering the mileage on the chassis, I'm just gonna dial
this one in for her daily driver and get another one (have the deal made,
just need the $) and do the upgrades etc. to it- which probably means an
engine conversion and all that entails.

On the current one, just gotta rebuild the tranny and the power steering
rack, put some tires on it and off she goes...!

Wow. Didn't mean to get into all that, hope it makes some entertaining
reading for y'all. : )

Cya,
Robert

p.s.: We discussed the possibility of affecting the compression before they
shaved the heads and we decided that for what they were planning to take off
it wouldn't be a difference worth worrying about; as I said, they figured
the gaskets, etc. probably had more play/give in them then they were going
to remove anyway.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Felder" <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Head treatment for pitting--flattening technique


> In my case, I didn't want to spend money on the heads but didn't want
> them to leak either. The car ran great, no drip, no smoke, no oil
> consumption. I drive the car very little these days, am usually in the
> diesel. It's going to get a new or rebuilt engine sometime soon anyway,
> I'd rather put the money toward that.
>
> But since the JB weld outlasts the aluminum on the head, what's
> half-fast about using it? If my head surfaces had been coated with jb
> weld from the factory, I would have probably saved the two gasket jobs
> the car has had in its life.
>
> And aren't you changing the compression by flycutting both sealing
> surfaces, just to get the proper sealing dimension at the water
> surface?
>
> Jim
>
> On Jan 18, 2005, at 1:14 PM, Stan Wilder wrote:
>
>> Why wouldn't you want to just weld up the pits and have the head
>> flycut for
>> proper sealing surface at the barrels.
>> That JB patch is just half fast way to be doing the job a second time.
>> An then there is the potential that you heads have reached EOL and
>> should be
>> replaced.
>>
>> Stan Wilder
>> Engine Ceramics
>> 214-352-4931
>> www.engineceramics.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Daryl Christensen" <aatransaxle@DIRECWAY.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: Head treatment for pitting--flattening technique
>>
>>
>>> The shop I was at for years used the JB trick on many since the mid
>>> 90's
>> on
>>> vans whoose owners were fiscally challenged...Works slick for long
>>> periods
>>> of time....One I know of ran another 75K before we lost track of
>>> it...JB
>>> wont pit or corrode. Daryl
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robert Fisher" <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 12:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Head treatment for pitting--flattening technique
>>>
>>>
>>>> I wound up doing the JB thing to my pitted heads after the machine
>>>> shop
>> had
>>>> taken them apart and thoroughly cleaned them; I sanded them down as
>>>> best
>> I
>>>> could with a block, mainly looking for bubbles (holes), etc.
>>>> Everything
>>>> looked pretty good, but I knew I didn't have it perfectly flush, so
>>>> when
>> I
>>>> took the heads back to the shop to have them finished, they shaved
>>>> the
>>>> mating surfaces slightly to get them flat. Now they understood about
>>>> the
>>>> cylinder clearances and all that, so they just took off some very
>>>> slight
>>>> fraction of an inch (don't remember exactly, might have been
>>>> 1/100ths).
>>>> They
>>>> figured that the gaskets and such probably had more give than what
>>>> they
>>>> took
>>>> off. Didn't seem to have any effect at all on reassembly or running;
>> that
>>>> was probably 12,000 miles ago or more and all is well so far,
>>>> assuming I
>>>> didn't just jinx myself.
>>>>
>>>> Probably something you wouldn't be able to get away with more than
>>>> once
>>>> but
>>>> it seemed to be effective.
>>>>
>>>> Cya,
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jim Felder" <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 7:50 AM
>>>> Subject: Head treatment for pitting--flattening technique
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm slogging through head replacement and have tried a technique
>>>>> that,
>>>>> while I can't say it's worked out well because I haven't run the
>>>>> car,
>>>>> seems worthy of mention for others contemplating the same procedure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the heads cleaned, then dremeled out the corrosion to leave
>>>>> bright, shiny pits and filled them with JB weld. Cured overnight.
>>>>> Then
>>>>> I spray-glued 100 grit sandpaper to 3/4 inch smooth plywood, mounted
>>>>> the sanding surface on a table, and sanded the head in a circular
>>>>> motion until all was perfectly--and I do mean perfectly--flat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have pictures of procedure and results if anyone is interested.
>>>>> Everyone may do this, I don't know. But it saved me a couple of
>>>>> trips
>>>>> to the machine shop and went really quickly. I tried it wet and dry,
>>>>> both have advantages/disadvantages. I'd just do dry next time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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