Date:         Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:27:36 -0600
Reply-To:     Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Subject:      FIXED runs well for a minute or two
In-Reply-To:  <41F2AAD7.1000101@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Sam, Milo and Ken,

Thanks for your help. It was ultimately the advice in this post to do
look for poor connections that did it. I unplugged the connector to the
black box on top of the air filter (AFM?) a number of times when
troubleshooting the problem ( the car running richer and richer until
it stalled) along with the O2 and TempII sensors. When I would
disconnect the AFM block, the car would die. BUT when I disconnected
not the block going to the AFM but to the next connector, the one that
the anti-bucking pigtail is plugged into, it actually ran better.
Unplugging and replugging this connection, which I never touched during
removal or installation, evidently cleared up a contact problem and the
car ran fine after that. I put about 10 miles on the interstate, ran
great.

Thanks for your help and support,

Jim


( On Jan 22, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Sam Walters wrote:

> Perhaps the ECU, which isn't usually the problem, or perhaps the idle
> stabilizer.
>
> Attached are some files from the list archives which will help with
> diagnostics.
>
> Sam
>
> --
> Sam Walters
> Baltimore, MD
>
> 89 Syncro GL
> 85 Westy Weekender
>
> All incoming and outgoing email scanned by automatically updated copy
> of Norton AntiVirus.
>
> On Fri, 28 May 2004, Michael Rule wrote:
>
>
>>> HI Hans (and anyone In The Know),
>>>
>>> Can you help me out please and give me an idea of what the TSII
>>> does?   Might help in the future if my basic trouble-shooting
>>> skills offer no help in the fuel-delivery department!
>
>
> It measures the engine temperature.  The ECU uses this information to
> provide a richer mixture when the engine is cold.
>
> If it fails shorted, the engine won't fire when cold.
>
> If it fails open, the engine will start fine when cold but will flood
> out
> and die when it warms up.
>
> On my aircooled bus, I worked around a bad Temp II sender for a while
> by
> disconnecting the wire when it was cold, then grounding it when it
> warmed
> up a bit.  I've heard since that it's better to connect it through a
> test
> light than to just ground it, to leave a little resistance in the
> circuit.
>
> It's amazing how suddenly an aircooled engine with an open Temp II
> sender
> will die when it gets warmed up.  I had it cut out at 55 mph like I'd
> turned off the switch.
>
>
> David Brodbeck, N8SRE
> '86 Volvo 240DL wagon
> '82 VW Vanagon Westfalia Diesel
>
> Maintenance troubleshooting tips
>
> If you've verified that the senders are OK, it may be a wiring issue.
>
> - Sounds like your ECU is in 'warm' mode even when the engine is cold.
>
> - Step one is to reseat all the electrical connectors in the engine
> bay,
> sometimes you can isolate this kind of problem by wiggling connectors
> to
> see if it changes the idle. Making sure the main connector to the ECU
> is
> nice and tight can't hurt either, since all the sensor wires come
> together
> right there.
>
> - I assume you've already cleaned up the big ground connection on the
> left
> side head, if not, do so!
>
> - Also check the condition of the ground braid from that ground point
> to
> the firewall. It's fairly cheap to double-up this connection with a
> second
> ground braid.
>
> - The most common failure point in the cold-start to warm-running
> transiation seems to be the Temp Sensor II (water temp sensor, on the
> thermostat housing). Sounds like you've verified that the sender is
> OK, so
> make sure the connector is in good shape, and that the wires are well
> crimped into the connector.
>
> - There's also the Temp Sensor I (air temp sensor, inside the AFM),
> make
> sure the connections to the AFM are nice and tight as well... this one
> rarely seems to fail (based on reading various posts to this list), but
> I've had similar cold start symptoms when I've forgotten to reconnect
> the
> AFM connector after having the air box out.
>
> - Vacuum lines are also real important! Make sure they are all tight
> and in
> good condition. Twenty years takes it's toll, it may be a good idea to
> just
> replace 'em all. My van came with a wide variety of dry rotted, loose
> or
> collapsed vacuum hoses, most of which have been replaced now (ongoing
> process, it doesn't seem possible to find *all* the sizes you need at
> any
> one FLAPS... or two... or even three).
>
> I've turned my '85 from a rough runner to a smooth one just by
> cleaning up
> the big ground connection, adding a new ground braid, and replacing old
> vacuum lines. It's cheap maintenance, and made a world of difference. I
> hope yours is as simple a fix!
>
>
> At 04:37 PM 6/16/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> Ok, time to put on your thinking caps.  Can anyone solve this by
>> sheer brain power alone?
>>
>> Details:
>>   1985 1.9l Westy w/Auto Trans and Air Conditioning
>>   145k miles
>>   Compression fair (around 120-125 each cylinder)
>>   Recently replaced Digital Idle Stabilizer
>>   Recently replaced AFM
>>   Timing @ 5BTDC
>>
>> Symptoms:
>>
>> When warm runs fine.  Get 17-18mpg on the highway @ 65mph, so I don't
>> think there is any gross mechanical problem with the engine or
>> mis-tuning.
>>
>> When cold (60F), it starts right up, but quickly (either immediately,
>> or within a minute or two) the idle is rough and the engine will die
>> when in Drive, and sometimes even when in Neutral.   I have to keep
>> one foot lightly on the accelerator to keep it from stalling.  Within
>> about 10 minutes of driving, the problem goes away.
>>
>> I've tried setting the idle higher when cold (with a few turns of the
>> idle adjustment screw).  This solves the stalling problem when cold,
>> but then when the van is warm, the idle is way too high (1500+ rpm).
>>
>> I've gone through the Bently and done most of the electrical digijet
>> diagnostics  (resistances of temp senders when cold and hot, etc.)
>> without finding anything amiss.
>>
>> Ideas?
>
>
> Tim Demarest
> tim.demarest@pobox.com
> This might not be running lean at all but just the oxy sensor saying
> so. Is
> the tail pipe black and are ther plugs sooted
> what ECU are you using stock or HP European version
> check the basics
> throttle switch
> fuel pressure both at ilde and at 2K
> pin test per Bentley
> timing at idle and total advance plus timing responce to the throttle
> opening
> check the vac advance and retard canisters for leaks
> compresion cold and hot the tesiting I did on the engine stand showed
> you
> had 180 PSI cranking with all the plugs out
> if you need a unfooled around with AFM let me know
> Robert Lilley spent alot of time and effort with the increased fuel
> pressure
> idea and I would think this would be a problem with cold starting
> starting
> due to the extra rich fuet miture
> I will CC this to him
>
> going faster miles an hour with the heat on
> Bob Donalds
> Boston Engine
> <FI system diagnostics Keller.zip>2.1 Idle stabilizer explained
>
> Jeff, I had a problem with erratic idle on my 88 GL, as you describe.
> With the engine warm, I disconnected the idle stabilizer valve and the
> erratic idle stabilized. Supposedly the idle stabilizer is cut out of
> the circuit when the engine warms up, but if there is a fault in the
> idle stabilizer circuit - either the ISV(up on top of the engine or the
> Idle Stabilizer Control (ISC) - a black box located just forward of the
> right hand brake light (remove the tail light for access)- this erratic
> idle can occur.
>
> If this is the source of the problem, you can drive quite safely with
> it
> disconnected until you can get the right repair.
>
> The idle stabilizer circuit does three things.
> 1) Kicks up the idle until warm-up after a cold start
> 2) Kicks up the engine RPM to avoid stalling when the power steering
> turn limits are reached ant the power steering pump is loaded.
> 3) Kicks up the RPM to avoid stalling at stoplights, etc, in traffic,
> when the air conditioner cycles on and off.
>
> Good Luck.
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver Drillock on O2 causing FI problems
>
> Classic symptoms of a problem with the OX sensor wiring or the sensor
> itself.
> The ECU just IGNORES the OX sensor signal until the coolant temp sensor
> tells it the engine is warmed up.
> THEN it uses the OX sensor signal to adjust the fuel mixture for best
> ratio. If the signal it sees is screwy it will badly mess up the
> mixture
> trying to correct it. It won't do this until the engine has been
> running
> for a few minutes.
>
> Many times this problem is caused by someone splicing a generic OX
> sensor into the OEM wiring.
> The splice becomes a problem either right away or some time down the
> road.
>
> Another common cause of OX signal errors is the GROUND for the OX
> signal. This is the small brown wire that comes out from the same small
> bundle as the hall connector to the distributor. The brown wire has a
> small ring connector on it and it gets attaches in various places as
> different people work on the engine. It should be removed and cleaned
> to
> shiny metal. Then it should be screwed down to the engine at a place
> where it is against shiny METAL. Commonly it gets screwed down against
> the plastic of the oil breather tower and this is not a good place.
>
> Mark