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Date:         Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:10:32 -0600
Reply-To:     John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject:      Re: 134 conversion
Comments: To: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <002001c507f6$09395a30$8cdb5e44@noner4688xfd1h>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Stan, where does one go to see about this license thing???

I'm getting ready to completely reqork my AC system. Being able to do it completely myself would be great.

Thanks,

John Rodgers 88 GL Driver

Stan Wilder wrote:

>It doesn't actually equal regreting the wait it's simply that Vanagon folks >are often tightly wound folks that will not spend the necessary money for >new hoses and other new parts that the system would need before repairing a >system for R12 after 15 to 25 years of use. > >So if you're not going to go the full routine of hose replacement, >compressor seals, expansion valve and new dryer I would suggest that the 134 >would be a cheaper solution than the R12 recharge. > >If you will take your R12 license and calculate the actual first class >repair of a leaky or non functioning Vanagon system you'll probably find it >would run over $400.00 to recharge a system with the required seals, hoses, >dryers etc before you'd give a custyomer a guarantee. > >My hose set was $227.00, Compressor Seal $18.00, Dryer $28.00, Expansion >Valve $30.00, 134R $15.00, Extra condenser I'll call $25.00 but it was free >because I alread had it. Then the shop labor, Oh! I did that myself and >saved $350.00. > >As for Hap-Hazzard conversions there are many sites that run through the >full routine and most women that get out of High School could do the job if >they read the instructions. > >Stan Wilder >Engine Ceramics >214-352-4931 >www.engineceramics.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeffrey Schwaia" <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM> >To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 5:47 PM >Subject: Re: 134 conversion > > > > >>Thank you for your "suggestion" that I consider my future needs, however, >>why should I act now? Is R-134a about to skyrocket in price? Perhaps the >>purchase of R-134a is akin to Microschmeg stock in 1985? >> >> >>My Point of View: >> >>The price of R-12 has been pretty static at $22 a can, R-134a is about $5 >> >> >a > > >>can. A Vanagon takes 3.5 cans of refrigerant, let's say $100 of R-12 to >>make the math easy. Now, considering my first statement about the A/C >>system, "good & tight, with no leaks", IMO it is by far the smarter path >> >> >to > > >>keep the system stock spend the extra $80 and use R-12. >> >>I have worked on several vans that had been converted to R-134a where the >>owner installed a high efficiency condenser and not one of them cooled as >>well as a good working stock R-12 system. Hap-hazard R-134a conversions >>often do more damage than good due to the fact that these systems were not >>designed for R-134a (e.g., the conversion has to be done right). >> >>Yes, I am a licensed A/C tech (big whoop), and my shop does have an R-12 >>recovery machine, however, R-12 is not that hard to get. The A/C tech >> >> >tests > > >>are available online, they're cheap and are a joke. Once you have your >> >> >EPA > > >>number, you can buy R-12. >> >> >>Ah, I love A/C topics. So many opinions, such little actual experience... >> >>Cheers, >> >>Jeff >>www.vanagonparts.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf >>Of Stan Wilder >>Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:19 PM >>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>Subject: Re: 134 conversion >> >> >>Yes Jeffrey! Even Ray Charles could see that. >>Yes R12 is approximately 14% more efficient than 134. >>Auto-makers response to this was simply to spin the compressor faster to >>compensate and build a substantial compressor business in the process. >>Just consider that a recharge of R12 cost about $215.00 on my Crown Vic >> >> >last > > >>year. >>Next year it could easily be in the $400.00 range. >>You better consider your future needs and just roll on over to the cheaper >>stuff before you regret the wait. >> >>Stan Wilder >>Engine Ceramics >>214-352-4931 >>www.engineceramics.com >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Jeffrey Schwaia" <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM> >>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:50 PM >>Subject: Re: 134 conversion >> >> >> >> >>>Same O, Same O, Except.... >>> >>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Vanagon interior is a wee bit >>>bigger than a 912. I could be wrong, perhaps I forgot to carry the one. >>> >>>Ceteris Paribus, R-12 is more efficient than R-134. >>> >>>Happy cooling... >>> >>>Cheers, >>> >>>Jeff >>>www.vanagonparts.com >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf >>>Of Stan Wilder >>>Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:07 PM >>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>>Subject: Re: 134 conversion >>> >>> >>>Same Type IV engine, Same Mini Your Compressor, Same general application >>>Suction Valve and Reciever dryer. Same O Same O. >>>And another Port Of Entry or Dealer Installed system. >>>If this was a $300.00 midification I wouldn't encourage it but it cam be >>>accomplished for less that the R12 refrigerant charge. >>>I was quoted $175.00 to recharge my Porsche system with R12 and that is >>>about the same as the VW system. >>> >>>Stan Wilder >>>Engine Ceramics >>>214-352-4931 >>>www.engineceramics.com >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "TJ Hannink" <tjhannink@YAHOO.COM> >>>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >>>Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:46 PM >>>Subject: Re: 134 conversion >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>So when some body says something, remember to ask: "Have you ever >>>>> >>>>> >done > > >>>>>that?" and that should send you in the right direction. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>So have you ever modified the A/C on a Vanagon this way? Your posts in >>>> >>>> >>the >> >> >>>archives describe your success in doing this to a 912e Porsche, not a >>>Vanagon; thats a little like comparing apples to oranges. >>> >>> >>>>There is at least one post in the archives from someone who has done >>>> >>>> >>this >> >> >>>modification to a Vanagon and for them it didn't seem to make any >>>difference. >>> >>> >>>>Good luck, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>TJ Hannink >>>>Goldibox - 1987 Vanagon Camper, Wolfsburg Edition >>>>1981 Bluebird Wanderlodge, FC-33 >>>>Winter Park, Florida >>>>http://home.earthlink.net/~tjhannink/ >>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wolfsburg_campers >>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wanderlodge >>>>FAVOR website: http://home.earthlink.net/~clubvanagon >>>> >>>>--------------------------------- >>>>Do you Yahoo!? >>>> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- >>>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 >>> >>> >>>-- >>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 >> >> >> >> > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 > > > >


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