Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:34:20 -0600
Reply-To: Al and Sue Brase <albeeee@MCHSI.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Al and Sue Brase <albeeee@MCHSI.COM>
Subject: Re: people who dont fix their seam rust....
In-Reply-To: <14591152.1109658893421.JavaMail.jrunberg@mac.com>
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I watch these seam rust threads and just wonder if I should get into the
fray! I guess I'd agree with most of what John's Dad-in -law said..
BUT: of my 6 Vanagons, the best is the 82, not the 87's or the 90 or the
91. Why? The 82 goes out to work in all kinds of salty brine nearly
every winter day. I think it got better seam sealing when it was built.
I don't know if there were changes in the production sealants or
procedures or what. Every place there is seam rust on one of my cars,
there is failure of the seam sealer behind it.
I've removed some sealer on my silver 87 to repair some damage. Damn!
that stuff is tough! It must be polyurethane caulk. I think if it is
intact, it is just fine to leave it. I plan to remove some of my sealant
from bad areas, treat the rust, and then reseal with similar
polyurethane caulk.
Treating the rust, there's a good one. I think sandblasting is pretty
good if you can get to it. It certainly removes the built up scale of
iron oxide. But it won't really work inside the seams unless you cut the
welds first. (and I hope you didn't let it get THAT bad!)
My current thinking is to use a rust converter first to convert the
iron oxide to something inert and more stable like iron phosphate (metal
prep- phosphoric acid). I don't know what Rust Mort is, but it and naval
jelly are similar.
THEN, I believe a polyurethane paint like POR 15 might be pretty good.
POR 15 claims you don't even need to remove the scale, but who would
want to leave it with scale showing? It would have to do a better job
the cleaner you got it. The nice thing about these type products is that
they will flow into pretty tight seams. and totally exclude the oxygen
once they cure.
I've not used any POR 15 actually but have used a Wurth product and just
recently received a shipment of something called Rust Bullet. I suspect
that they are similar, The Wurth stuff is just incredible.Once cured, it
seems like powder paint. I think it might do a pretty good job.
So, in summation:
1.Find and remove defective sealants.
2. Physically remove as much scale as possible.
3. Do any necessary welding repairs
4. Acid treat. Neutralize or rinse out acid.
5 Flow polyurethane paint (POR 15) into seam to thoughly seal from
oxygen. Let cure.
6. Competely inspect to see if you missed any places. Re do if necessary.
7. Do final filling and paint- spot or full repaint.
8. Repair caulking on back side with new poly caulk.
9. Test for seal with pressure washer from back side. Repair if necessary.
10. spend next 2 weeks getting that POR stuff off your hands.
11. Enjoy your work and get back to engine problems.
Al Brase
(More progress reports to follow)
John Runberg wrote:
>Zoltan,
>
>A quick question to the body-guy inlaw dad brought the following answers:
>- old paint is usually faded. You can have a color spectrometer match the color on the car, but why?
>- A good body man can fade/sand the new paint into the old paint. This may or not be noticable depending on how off the two colors are.
>- if some of the seams are failing then most likely ALL of the seams are failing. Suggestion was to suck it up and start digging out every inch of the stuff, starting w/ the places obviously cracked. Remove, fix rust, replace, paint.
>- by the time you finish all the cracks, you'll want a new paint job :) Especially after the windows are pulled to fix the rust behind there.
>- bad cauk probably means thin paint, as well. Again, prep for a full paint. Not cheap.
>
>He was real helpful -- basically told me to have fun and just do it. Joy. Time to start saving...
>
>john
>
>
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