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Date:         Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:13:21 -0500
Reply-To:     Hans Achter <hansachter@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Hans Achter <hansachter@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Vngns are not junk!(Minivans)
Comments: To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Wow, you really get everything on this list! My grandfather had a Goggomobil, the limousine I think. I rode in it a couple times. I think my cousin still has it. -Hans

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Schwaia" <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:32 PM Subject: Re: Vngns ARE junk!(Minivans)

Robert,

How about a '58 Goggomobil?

http://www.goggomobil.com/gallery/transporter/transporter.html

Or perhaps you prefer the Doka?

http://www.goggomobil.com/gallery/pickup/pickup.html

Cheers,

Jeff

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf Of Robert Keezer Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:55 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Vngns ARE junk!(Minivans)

Hey- I think Subaru had one of the first minivans, L@@K -

http://www.cars101.com/oldsubpictures.html

Robert

1982 Westfalia

--- Jeffrey Earl <jefferrata@YAHOO.COM> wrote: > >> Please, do compare the Vanagon and its > reliability > to anything else designed in the late 70's. Do > compare it to other 20+year old vehicles. Let's > draw > relevant conclusions. > > and > > >> Tell me that a 20 year old caravan runs problem > free. All older cars require maintanance! > > > I assume you gentlemen read no more than the first > paragraph of my original post before gleefully > depressing your "Reply" buttons. > > Had you proceeded even to the next sentence you > would > have read me doing exactly what you request: > comparing > the 1980 Vanagon to a 1980 Mustang, or by > implication, > any other 20-year-old vehicle of your choice. And my > conclusion was that, as you say, ALL 20-year-old > cars > will require extra care and maintenance. I maintain, > however, that the Vanagon will require even a little > bit more ... (wink) > > Chris, to compare the Vanagon to a Dodge Caravan is > more than fair. In fact, according to this webpage > for > Chrysler minivan enthusiasts (and I thought we > Vanageeks were oddballs): > > "The Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager were first > introduced to the world in 1983, but Chrysler had > actually started working on them in the early 1970s, > with full development starting in 1980. Indeed, one > engineer told us that the launch was originally to > be > in 1981, but that the minivan project was put on > hold > for the Y-body Imperial." > http://www.allpar.com/model/m/history.html > > So it seems the Vanagon and the Caravan are very > close > automotive cousins, conceived nearly simultaneously > and born within two years of each other. The article > goes on to say: > > "Who invented the minivan? > > "Chrysler invented the modern minivan - twice. > Richard > Moss pointed out that Chrysler Europe was working > with > Matra on a minivan in the late 1970s / early 1980s. > ... Matra took the design to Renault, which modified > it to fit the Renault 21 drivetrain...resulting in a > calendar-year 1983 introduction and Europe's most > popular minivan. ... The American Plymouth Voyager > and > Dodge Caravan were also introduced in 1983, as 1984 > models." > > The article seems to ignore the existence of VW > Vanagons on American streets as early as 1980(!), > and > if the earlier Busses/Transporters weren't "mini > vans", I don't know what is. > > I love my Vanagon Westy like no other vehicle I've > owned. You can have it only when you pry my > lifeless, > mangled corpse from its crumpled, steely clutches. > But > I am not blind to the Vanagon's peculiar foibles, > and > a little honest self-evaluation never hurt anyone. > Or > a van ... > > > Jeffrey Earl > 1983 diesel Westfalia "Vanasazi" > http://www.vanthology.com/ > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage > less. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >

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