Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 04:32:10 -0500
Reply-To: Jonathan Farrugia <jfarrugi@UMICH.EDU>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jonathan Farrugia <jfarrugi@UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vngns ARE junk! Wilder's Law
In-Reply-To: <4233D3F9.1000100@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i have to agree with mark here. there is not much that can compete with
parts were built for the auto companies while the vehicle was still in
production. having been in and out of thousands of parts plants here in
the detroit area i can tell you that small shops will never put out a
product with specs as tight as those parts originally had. the problem is
not the desire to produce a nice high quality product but rather the
barrier is the tooling cost.
IMHO you can't really make a "production" part without a CMM (computerized
measuring machine). CMM rooms cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to
millions of dollars. most of the oem plants that i have been in 100%
parts, that is that every part is 100% inspected. that is one of the
reasons between the cost of identical looking parts with the vw label
scrapped off. that 100% check costs a lot of money both in measuring
tooling and labor costs. thats why the manufacture "generally" doesn't
want their name on it because anything you don't 100% is going to have a
overall lower quality reputation.
add to that trying to rework cores that have twisted dimensionally and
using production machines and tooling past their prime and you get parts
that aren't as good out of the box and don't hold up as well over time.
often substandard parts are made in the same oem plant that made the part
originally. i have worked on these lines, the shove old worn machines and
tooling in the back of the plant or in a corner. then to cut cost they
cut quality control and don't test measuring equipment. to further cut
cost when a part comes out that doesn't meet spec those few times that you
do actually measure it you just run it back through the machine until its
close enough or the operator is tired of looking at it. i have see lines
and talked to operators where there is a maximum of scrap allowed on that
line. that means that if they have already meet the scrap quantity for the
day they WILL ship defects, and you will lose your job if you don't put
the defects in the box. this takes place in oem plants with oem tooling
and these parts are sold under the oem suppliers name!
the same really applies for the installation of parts and assemblies. i
am often very turned off at some of the repair work that i see people do
and turn out. but alas most weekend wrenchers and a LOT of professional
mechanics don't know how to measure and analyize systems. nor can they
see clear to spend the money on tooling to do so. they are just
part changers and in general feel better about themselves and their job as
a function of the new shiney parts used in the process. i guess i will
sum it up with a line i recently read on a vanagon persons web page. on
the page the individual was working on their transmission and in the
process of the work cycle decided to paint the transmission. the person
just painted over the half cleaned transmission with silver paint and the
proud caption below the picture said the following. "who says that pigs
don't look better in lipstick".
jonathan
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005, mark drillock wrote:
> I am not picking on my friend Larry and he had a great trip breakdowns
> and all. I am all for fixing what is known to be bad before a big trip.
> It just seems that we can go too far in trying to head off problems that
> may never crop up. Buy a van that has been seeing regular use, check it
> out for a while, fix those problems that are discovered. You are right
> that rebuilt engines don't often live as long as the original. Same goes
> for the trannys. A couple years ago I had one of my 2wd trannys rebuilt
> as a precaution in a Westy I planned to take some very long trips in.
> Big mistake. I have never before had a VW tranny turn to rubble while I
> was driving but the rebuilt one did just that on a big trip. That was
> after it had been fixed under warranty once already. After that I junked
> the tranny and put a used one in. No problems with that one.
>
> Mark
>
> Benoit wrote:
>
> > """why not just limp the original until it died?"""
> > I agree... i guess he was scared... or in need of a new gadget engine
> > (he he he Larry)...but what he told me made sense, a bit more power
> > because of it's heavy load... Let's not forget one thing, this engine
> > deal look pretty good.
> > Now, we know one thing, in general, VW rebuilt engine are crap in
> > general...they simply don't last... most people and customer i know
> > don't have more than 30 to 40 k miles before a major overall!!!!!!!!
> >
> > So, in that sense, VW west are Junk, not the van but the engine side
> > of it!!!!
> > We are way far of a very reliable Honda engine that will do way more
> > than 200k miles on a engine without any major maintenance!!!!!!!!!!! I
> > work on both company all day long...VW is wat far from Honda technology.
> >
> > """Why did he get all new ones? Then a couple thousand miles later he
> > has a failure."""
> > It is call prevention, for some, it's a must, fot others, it is not a
> > need...now, who are we to judge what degree of prevention is good for
> > one...and for others??????????????? I agree on some stuff.... Maybe he
> > went to far as for prevention...but i am not the one to judge!!!
> >
> > """These folks were going to the tip of South America and back in a
> > group of VW vans.""""
> > I met them, a least 1 of those folks...one is in Orlando! Keeth. His
> > trip was not about a van....but about a trip!
> >
> > I think there is aminimum that can be done before a big trip like
> > that....
>
> ..................
>
>
>
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