Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 07:08:35 -0800
Reply-To: Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject: Re: Wilder's Law
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I reckon you're overthinking this thing a bit... you gotta remember Stan's
from Texas, y'know.
It had occurred to me at some point that if Wilder's Law was really gonna be
a 'law' in the sense of a scientific or economic law that it would have to
have some rules and modifiers such as you describe, but it was beyond my
wherewithal and inclination to figure out what they might be. I kinda like
it the way it is- better to be short and catchy than accurate, eh? : )
As for your fourth point, I think it's necessary to leave the labor costs in
for reference, particularly in the case of engine conversions/upgrades, so
that other people can get a sense of the overall 'ballpark' costs of these
things; I also think in general it gives a better sense of the 'absolute' or
total costs for the purpose of comparison (initial purchase v. total
outlay). It brings up a couple of points, tho- do people tend to report the
total cost of a repair or upgrade including labor, or do they tend to just
relate the parts cost (I always just assume they throw the labor in there
for shock effect, if nothing else); also, did Stan intend or assume that
people would include labor costs when applying his theorem?
Cya,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joy Hecht" <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: Wilder's Law
> Seems to me that if we're going to have a "law" we need to think about it
more carefully.
>
> First, routine operating and maintenance costs of any vehicle irrespective
of its condition shouldn't be included.
>
> Second, one would expect that the more the van costs to start, the less
the repairs should be after that, since presumably the cheap vans are those
that need more investment. So there would be some midpoint value where the
cost of the van and cost of initial repairs should be the same, but for
cheaper vans repairs should be higher, and for expensive vans they should be
lower.
>
> Third, we need to control for where it was bought (east coast vans are
more than west coast, due to lack of supply), what model it is, and other
factors that influence sale price that aren't related to condition of the
van. We should probably also factor in that repairs (labor cost) are higher
in large cities than in rural areas or modest cities. (I speak from
experience!)
>
> Fourth, we should factor in the value of labor that people put into their
vans, so paid-for repairs come out comparable to repairs done oneself.
Those who can do their own repairs have invested lots of time in learning
how, whereas those who can't have invested our time in other things that we
enjoy, and (hopefully) in ways of making a living that make it possible to
pay for car repairs. But the value of the repairs should be the same
whether we do them ourselves or pay for them.
>
> Then we might get some interesting data to look at regarding cost of van
and how much has to go into keeping it running!
>
> Aren't you sorry to have a data geek on the list??
>
>
> Joy
>
> ****************************************************************
> Joy Hecht
> and Matilda, 1989 Burgundy Vanagon
>
> For musings about life and the vanadventures:
> http://users.rcn.com/jhecht/gypsy
>
> ****************************************************************
>
> :::-----Original Message-----
> :::From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
> :::Of Robert Fisher
> :::Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 5:32 AM
> :::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> :::Subject: Re: Wilder's Law
> :::
> :::I paid $300.00 for my '87 GL passenger van, and I've got roughly
$1400.00
> :::into it, so I guess I'm helping Tom pull up the average, at least from
a
> :::percentage standpoint.
> :::BTW, I tend to think that these figures shouldn't include tire
> :::replacement;
> :::I don't see it in the same category as replacing a radiator or a head
or
> :::whatever. Can't really think of anything else off the top of my head
that
> :::I'd exclude, tho. Brakes, possibly; that's another limited lifetime
> :::wear-out-and-replace item. Hmm.
> :::
> :::Cya,
> :::Robert
> :::
> :::----- Original Message -----
> :::From: "Aleksandr Milewski" <zandr@ASPERASOFT.COM>
> :::To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> :::Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 6:40 PM
> :::Subject: Re: Wilder's Law
> :::
> :::
> :::> Tom Sinclair wrote:
> :::> > I'm not sure whose law I'm following. I paid $2700
> :::> > for my Syncro in 2000 and towed it home. I've spent
> :::> > about $20k on it since then but never driven it. What
> :::> > does that make me? On second thought I don't want to
> :::> > know...
> :::>
> :::> The good news, is that Wilder's Law, like much of quantum (or
Vanagon)
> :::> mechanics, only really applies to the average. By spending $16,300
more
> :::> than Wilder's Law requires, you've allowed four other people to
simply
> :::> drive their $4000 Vanagons with no additional outlay.
> :::>
> :::> I'm sure they thank you, whomever they might be.
> :::>
> :::> -Zandr
> :::> '85 Westy, which caused my father to swear never to buy another
> :::> Volkswagen again. He now drives a Land Rover. Last Laugh TBD. :D
>
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