Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:44:53 -0700
Reply-To: jbrush@AROS.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Anonymous Digest <jbrush@AROS.NET>
Subject: CV joint theory: long
I would like to just solicit opinions from those who certainly know CV
joints better than I do. One of mine failed on a return trip from the
deserts of southern Utah last November. (I prefer to visit, rather than
sit on the toilet and just think about it<g>) Since I had no plans until
this spring, it has been a slow and boring process to get my mind ready to
do the job.
There really is a question at the end of all of this.....
After limping it home, I found thatthe inside joint (at the trans) was
major whacked, as in it moved up and down, and front to back, a whole lot,
so that even I could tell it was hosed.
Being financially strapped, I was given a used axle with a pair of working
joints with the idea of having them get me by until I could afford all new
joints. I pulled the axle, and was astonished that the bad joint even got
me home. Those really are tough old birds. Burned, brassed, pitted,
deformed, and looking like they almost were ready to melt, I knew I was
fixing the problem. I bagged the whole mess, and put it away.
The replacement set had one pretty new joint, and one that was probably an
original, but it did not appear to be pitted badly, or show anything else
that would make me think it was a problem. I cleaned both, shined them up,
and with grease from the new boot kits, I packed em and replaced both
boots with new. The older joint did not require a puller, as it pretty
much just slid off the axle, which I thought to be odd, but I forged
ahead.
I installed the axle, and was dismayed to drive the van and hear a clunk,
clunk that increased with the wheel speed. The noise was similar to the
sound from the really bad, inside joint, but it was nowhere near as
pronounced, so I grabbed the axle, and found that now the outside joint,
the older of the two replacements, was "loose." Loose means that I can
move it up and down, front to back, just a smidge. Not a lot, not at all
near how the bad one behaved, but enough that it made a knocking sound as
I moved it, steel against steel. Now I am really confused, as it was an
okay joint by all the definitions and comments I have gotten from so many
great sources.
This caused me to wander off into 'bad wheel bearing land' :-) as jacking
the van and moving the wheel got me thinking it was a bearing. If the axle
was moving, maybe it was the bearing that was shot, and not the joint?
Took it to my trusted mechanic for inspection and emissions testing, and
asked him to look at it. He told me the outside CV joint was bad. I bet he
has seen hundreds bad joints in his business, so I believed him. He also
assured me that the slop in the wheel was not excessive, and not a bearing
issue.
Okay, being expert in pulling the joints, <g> no big thing to pull the
axle, and put the joint back on the outside that was there originally, and
considered to be 'good'
I did that today/tonight. Cleaned up the joint that was going on the
outside, where it came from. It looked okay, not new, but it met the
criteria that so many have pointed out as acceptable. Got it all back
together, and pulled on the outside, replaced joint. Hurray! No movement.
But, now much to my dismay, the inside, nearly new joint, now moves up
and down and front to back, just like the outside one I had just replaced.
Not much, but it makes a definite knock sound. Now I am really confused as
it was rock solid before I pulled it off a few hours ago. I didn't do
anything with the joint, just put a bag on it.
With it all buttoned up, I took it for a drive, expecting to hear the
knocking, but I was surprised to hear noise, so the 'loose' joint is not
so loose as to knock, but I am sure its on the verge, as the axle on the
driver's side, which is untouched through all of this, does not move at
all.
Now that may be too much information, badly presented, but this morning,
the inside joint was solid, and did not move, while the outside did move
slightly and I could hear steel knocking against steel. Not a lot, but it
was there. I replaced that joint, and now it no longer moves, but now the
one on the inside is doing it.
There, that is a long story, but here, finally, is my question:
What is loose? I have seen it now on three joints. What the heck is it
that is moving, and knocking together? Its a solid knock, not pronounced,
and not apparently qualifying as bad yet, but still, it ought not do that
at all.
I stare at the joints, I look at pictures, and I cannot seem to understand
what it is that is moving up and down, making that sound. Anyone have a
theory, or a fact to explain what this is? I am okay with my repairs for
now, as they are quiet, and new joints all around are in the future
budget, but I am still way curious what the heck is actually loose, what
exactly is moving and knocking against what? I can see having major slop,
like the original, really bad joint, but this small movement and what it
is, really has me curious. Having become intimate with the joints, having
spent time rubbing that wonderful CV grease on them, <g> I am unable to
picture what is actually loose, and causing the sound I hear.
I would be interested in hearing what anyone thinks are the parts in the
joint that are 'knocking' together when I move the axle.
Anyway, if you read this far, I thank you for your time. Any thoughts or
theories are welcomed.
John
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